[WIP] The Offical Post of The Surface Warfare Super-Mod

[tater]

That's OK, I had too many beers to write "too" instead of "to," myself

Self-pwnage, gotta love it :rotfl:

[tater]

Regarding major surface naval battles... still not seeing it. WThere were really not many engagements of surface forces (not counting minor combatant classes). There are single surface engagements in the PTO with more shots fired I bet than all the KM surface battles combined.

Just saying that for surface warfare, nothing beats the PTO.

[tomhugill]

Well if you think early war you have all the actions of the German surface fleet commerce raiding , battle of the river plate , actions involving the bismark , sinking of the Scharn etc. PTOs ok , but regarding actual ship to ship , rather than air to ship or actions involving carriers there isnt so much

[tater]

Originally Posted by tomhugill

Well if you think early war you have all the actions of the German surface fleet commerce raiding , battle of the river plate , actions involving the bismark , sinking of the Scharn etc. PTOs ok , but regarding actual ship to ship , rather than air to ship or actions involving carriers there isnt so much

LOL.

Commerce raiding? Yeah, a warship vs unarmed merchants, there's a major naval engagement.

The other actions are a handful of ships at best.

Your understanding of the Pacific naval war is deeply flawed. There were many surface actions between major warships. The Solomons alone exceed all the surface actions between the Germans and Allies combined. Yes, there were a number of small engagements between BB/BCs in the ATO and Med. There were fewer pure BB/BC engagements in the PTO. Once you bother to include CA actions and smaller (still DDs and larger) it skyrockets in the PTO.

Just Guadalcanal stuff (only warships listed, total numbers for both sides together):

Savo 15 Cruisers, 16 DDs.

Battle of Cape Esperance, 7 Cruisers, 13 DD, 2 AS.

Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, 1 CV, 4 BB, 13 CA/CL, 28 DD.

Battle of Tassafaronga, 5 CA/CL, 12 DD.

That's 4 months in the PTO.

tater

[Raptor1]

The Naval Battle of Guadalcanal cannot be counted as 1 battle, it was 2 battles with different Task Forces fighting in both

Anyway, the Solomon Islands campaigns also had about a dozen engagements between the Tokyo Express and interdicting US TGs which were pure surface actions (No aircraft at night)

But...don't forget the Med battles between the Regia Marina and the Royal Navy (I would even go as far as saying the Regia Marina's surface fleet being more powerful than the Kriegsmarine's), these regularly involved several battleships on both sides

And the RM never had a CV AFAIK (Aquila was never finished)

[tomhugill]

Well im happy to be wrong , this is why im not writing the campaign

[tater]

Raptor, you are correct, I was generalizing the 1st/2d Naval Battles of Guadalcanal, and regarding the RM's CV. I thought she was finished. I do agree, however, that the RM was a more balanced navy than the KM, though. You're right about all the Cactus Express (aka Tokyo Express) engagements. I was just counting the major engagements.

I'm not down on surface actions anywhere, gotta love 'em, just that the PTO is often wrongly characterized as an exclusively CV show, when that is clearly not true.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

And the RM never had a CV AFAIK (Aquila was never finished)

That's right mate...she was never fully completed...not far from, but never fully.

http://www.comandosupremo.com/Aquila.html

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

That's right mate...she was never fully completed...not far from, but never fully.

http://www.comandosupremo.com/Aquila.html

The Graf Zeppelin was ninty-something percent completed as well IIRC