Flash: OBAMA IS PRESIDENT!!!

[UnderseaLcpl]

Well, it would seem that I have underestimated the Democratic electorate of this country. I had complete confidence that McCain would win, as much as I dislike him. Egg on my face

However, I would caution that Democratic presidencies combined with Democratic congress have yielded some of the greatest economic and social hardships this country has faced in the past century.


Right now, this country can ill-afford vast expenditures on social programs, as well as the inevitable continuing expenditures on Iraq, whatever the Dems may say about it. The combination of the banking system with the Federal government to the extent we know today is a recipe for a disaster of heretofore unseen proportions if mishandled. And that is the key. No matter who is president, it will only take one selfish plutocrat or bumbling fool to plunge this nation into an economic abysss that will take centuries (and wars) to recover from.

It would seem that America has been willing to give its' "leadership", since we evidently have such a thing, despite the efforts of our founders, the power to govern the currency, and the welfare of the people. Let us hope that it doesn't work out as disastrously as it has for every other nation that tried it.

One way or the other, It would appear that Barack Obama is now my commander-in-chief. With any luck, we won't have to deal with the situation we had last time there wasa Democratic president, congress, and a fiscal crisis.

[Christopher Snow]

Not yet. I still hold out hope Obama will be found to be Constitutionally ineligible to hold office.

[If you wonder what I'm blathering on about, ask yourself why KENYA is partying so hard tonight.]

A KENYAN born citizen CANNOT become POTUS (President of the United States) But don't tell them that until the party is over....

Only a "natural born US citizen" can.

Nor can and an INDONESIAN citizen become POTUS. Or even a "naturalized US citizen from Indonesia."

No. Only a "natural born US citizen" can. This is the same reason the current governor of California can never become POTUS--because he NOT a NATURAL BORN US citizen.

(And, yes...just in case you wondered: I AM talking about Barack Obama--it's alledged he might be either Kenyan born or Indonesian educated, either of which should make him ineligible to be POTUS under the terms of the US Constitution.

[Supreme Court decision probably upcoming].

Why does it matter? It's because this one, elected official is the ONLY one who will be in command of the US military (and all it's might). It's because he, ALONE, will be Commander-in-Cheif (and so he must be loyal ONLY to the United States (he can have no split/dual loyalties).

See "Article 2" of the US constitution (look for better sources, btw, than "Wikipedia")


CS

[PeriscopeDepth]

I thought all the political mud slinging would at least slow down with the election being over, not reach epic proportions. Maybe another week will do it?

PD

[baggygreen]

Originally Posted by Christopher Snow

Not yet. I still hold out hope he will be found to be Constitutionally ineligible to hold office.

[If you wonder what I'm blathering on about, ask yourself why KENYA is partying so hard tonight.]

A KENYAN born citizen CANNOT become POTUS (President of the United States) But don't tell them that until the party is over....

Only a "natural born US citizen" can.

Nor can and an INDONESIAN citizen become POTUS. Or even a "naturalized US citizen from Indonesia."

No. Only a "natural born US citizen" can. This is the same reason the current governor of California can never become POTUS--because he NOT a NATURAL BORN US citizen.

(And, yes...just in case you wondered: I AM talking about Barack Obama)

Why does it matter? It's because this one, elected official is the ONLY one who will be in command of the US military (and all it's might). It's because he, ALONE, will be Commander-in-Cheif (and so he must be loyal ONLY to the United States (he can have no split/dual loyalties).

See "Article 2" of the US constitution (look for better sources, btw, than "Wikipedia")


CS

Mate, Obama has done nothing but create suspicion by refusing to produce solid evidence that he's a born citizen. Makes you wonder why he wouldn't simply whip out a copy??

Regardless, I suspepct that anything that represents him in a negative light will not see the light of day for at least a year, and even then there would be very little attention. Things like his birth cerrtificate will never see the light of day. Why? There are lots of people wondering...

It is simply beyond me to understand why he flatly refuses to produce it if he is, as he claims, born in the states.

[PeriscopeDepth]

His birth certificate has never seen the light of day? Really?

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchas...sses-obama.php

PD

[Christopher Snow]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

His birth certificate has never seen the light of day? Really?

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchas...sses-obama.php

PD

No, not yet it hasn't.

Judge Surrick did NOT request or require of Barack Obama that he produce a "certified, vault copy" of his birth certificate, no. And despite Berg request that he do so (so, as yet, Obama has still been given a free pass on the question--AND DESPITE the provisions and requrements of Article 2 of the original US Constitution, Obama has STILL not yet been required to show he truly IS a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN by producing evidence of a "certified vault copy" of his birth certificate---read the decision and you will realize I am right).

Or, more correctly, Berg himself is right: Because he has not yet been required to produce proof his IS eligible to be POTUS, we are headed for a real "Constitutional Crisis" over the matter.

As far seeing as our forefathers were, I suspect they failed to imagine a scenario in which a citizen honestly contesting a candidates eligibility could possibly be ruled "not to have standing to do so."

I think it would have caused Franklin himself a heart-attack.

[Personally, I think Ben Franklin would be rolling over in his grave at the idea such a challenge would be disallowed on a mere technicality, but then...our forefathers were real men...and we are but poorly raised children by comparison.]

Iin answer to your exact question: No. As of today his birth certificate has not yet seen the light of day. No.

Judge Surrick DENIED the request to produce (and see) it.

He denied it because he decided Berg did not "have standing" to demand to see it.

FWIW, it's my own belief Obama is still hiding his BC because he cannot prove he IS a Natural Born US citizen--I believe he CANNOT prove he was born in Hawaii (but that's just my own view).

-------

I read earlier tonight that one of the third party presidential or vice-presidential candidates has now filed his own lawsuit (and presumably as a candidate who had LOST this election, he WOULD, indeed, have standing to demand to see this birth certificate...so we'll see how that plays out).

www.americasright.com or www.obamacrimes.com for more info.

For my part I have no personal stake in any of these cases--I only hope Obama WILL be found to be ineligible to be POTUS in the end (because I believe he IS ineligible).

[I wear my own "tinfoil hat" just above my periscope ]


CS

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Christopher Snow

Surrick did NOT request or require of Barack Obama that he produce a "certified, vault copy" of his birth certificate, no.

So, in answer to your exact question: No. As of today his birth certificate has never seen the light of day. No.

Judge Surrick DENIED the request to produce (and see) it.

He denied it because Berg did not "have standing."

-------

I read earlier tonight that one of the third party candidates had filed his own lawsuit (and presumably as a candidate who had LOST this election, he WOULD have standing...so we'll see.

www.americasright.com or www.obamacrimes.com for more info.

For my part I have no stake in any of these cases--only hope Obama WILL be found to be ineligible to be POTUS in the end.

[I wear my own "tinfoil hat" just above my periscope ]


CS

I can't believe you actually think this guy isn't an American citizen. I'm fairly sure a few people have looked very hard to find these sorts of things by now. You could certainly hope for that outcome. But in this day and age, a rational man has to realize that Obama not being a US citizen is not likely. Possible yes, but it's a REAL, REAL long shot.

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/5626

PD

[Jimbuna]

Here's hoping the US have made the right choice :hmm:

[Christopher Snow]

I think he is not...or at least suspect he is not...a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, within the meaning of Article 2 of the original, unaltered US constitution, yes.

Yes I do.

To your point: People HAVE been looking for quite a while now, yes. And they have been generally stymied by any, and all legal blocks which could be thrown up to thwart them.

The practice of law (even in the US) is usually ugly. Quite bloody, even.

I believe his US citizenship was renounced by his mother, Ann Dunham, and his Indonesion father, Lolo Sotero, when he was relocated to Indonesia at age 5.

At best, then, he would only have been able to RECLAIM his US citizenship (thereby becoming a naturalized citizen, and one ineligible to hold the office of POTUS) if he took steps to do so at age 18 (and evidence suggests he did NOT do so, which means he is still an Indonesian citizen today, and is, in fact, ineligible even to hold the office of US Senator from Illinois--I suspect he is a true "illegal alien") .

Please note that he has gone out of his way NOT to make pertinent information available on this subject. He has NOT produced any of his birth records (as John McCain so willingly did when queried on the same issue)--he has been ANYTHING but forthcoming on the matter...and think there is a reason.

-------------

FWIW, there is at least some chance too (and some suspicion even on my own part that he IS, indeed, an American citizen after all...because he might WELL have been parented by a US father. But it willl require a paternity test (genetic test) to prove or disprove it, and so far, Obama has not been forthcoming here either (oh, what a surprise)).

Thia second theory suggests he is NOT the son of Kenyan National (UK citizen) Barack Obama Sr. at all (and, moreover, he probably knows it).

If you have ever seen a photo of "Barack Obama Sr." you will have a hard time (I think) conjuring up a picture of ANY "white mother" who could be paired with him to produce Obama Jr.s as a child.

[yes, I realize this sounds as if I've gone even further off the "very deepest end".. ..but bear with me. It should, at least, amuse you. ]

Barack's mother, Ann Dunham was seventeen when she (allegedly) had a sexual relationship with an American Civil Rights activist, one "Frank Marshall Davis."

Davis was a close friend of the Dunham family, and he lived very close by too in Seattle.

Moreover, Davis was not immune to this sort of temptation--he had yet another alleged relationship with girl of merely thirteen, I gather.

Anyway, the theory goes that Davis fathered Obama Jr by Ann Dunham...but because Davis was already married to a white woman, and because he was a well known civil-rights leader, the three families: Dunham, Davis, and Obama together, all agreed to register Obama as Baracks "father of record" on his birth certificate, rather than compromise Frank Davis himself.

Ok...it sounds completely wacko, I agree...

....until you actually SEE pictures of Barcack Obama Sr. and Frank Marshall Davis, set side-by-side. At that point, and in my view, this "wacko theory" becomes completely plausible.

And as to WHY would it have been covered up in the first place? Because Frank Marshall Davis, American Civil Rights activist was an AVOWED MARXIST/COMMUNIST!

Hey...it's not my theory, but just one I stumbled upon (at the "hillaryclintonforum.net")

So....take it as just another "conspiracy theory," if that's your tendency.

Write me off as just another wacko too, if you must (but hopefully, you'll realize I've been trying to be somewhat fair and objective too...so maybe you won't.

----------

And yet, I cannot help but notice a STRONG resemblance between this "alledged father" Frank Marshall Davis and Obama Jr...while at the same time failing to find ANY POSSIBLE resemblance between "Obama Sr." and his supposed son (at least any that could occur between one single generation).

Moreover, I would be willing to be a fairly large sum of cash on a paternity test to this effect too.

I'm sorry, but I just cannot conjure up a picture/imagine ANY white woman who could have produced the son I know as Barack Obama Jr, from that father.

But I can easily see resemblances between Davis and Obama (the decending lines under the nose, the raised seam through the center of the upper lip, the overall shape of the head, the mutual furrowed brow, skin tone....yadda yadda yadda.....

See for yourselves:

Barack Obama Sr. photo: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp3.blogger.com/_Bmqw646nwsE/R7Gtx8dBKNI/AAAAAAAACVk/931E7p5QYqQ/s400/barack%252Bsr_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wenjaz2.blogspot.com/2008/02/barack-obamas-mom-and-dad-and-michelle.html&h=400&w=264&sz=25&hl=en&start=9&um=1 &usg=__QkDJy1wAibmgyZceJYVLnclcOEc=&tbnid=ZgLmswSN nMoZ9M:&tbnh=124&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBarack%2BObama%2BSr.%26um%3D1%26hl%3D en%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.ubuntu:en-USfficial%26sa%3DX

Frank Marshall Davis photo:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...&ct=image&cd=1


CS

[Christopher Snow]

It's not beyond my understanding if he has something to hide (and I think he does).

He hasn't produced any of his school records either, of course. Nor any records of how his schooling was financed.

But since the Mainsteam Media here in the US (THE MSM) has given him a free pass, he hasn't had to do so.

He's certainly HAS created suspicion by refusing to be forthcoming (but apparently not enough suspicion, because he was, nonetheless, elected tonight--too bad for the rest of the American Electorate--they deserve whatever they get, IMO, for failing to exercise "due diligence.").

I would agree, that, based on the pace of American jurisprudence (my sister is a lawyer, so I'm quite familiar with it), it will, indeed be a year, or more before there is any chance of the real truth being discovered and known to all.

So I won't wait--I'm bailing out now.


CS

[Biggles]

Good for you America. IMHO that is.

So Obama has won, and big time at that. Can't say I am dissapointed, even though it will get more rough in Europe now considering Afghanistan. But that's something I am more then willing to take if it means the US comes back into the club of nations respecting human rights and global rules.

Voting Obama alone raised the US reputation by a big margin practically overnight. You guys voted a black president. Big kudos to that, I did not see that coming. Basicly threw a ot of clichés out of the window into the faces of those thinking the US was still too racist. That alone was worth it already, if not anything else.

If I were you, and that includes republicans, I'd be grateful for this already. And that Obama, unlike Bush, also embraces the other party. From an outsiders view, national unity is more then needed in the US right now to tackle the problems. I personally want to see the US come to it's former glory again, it's moreal authority and it's leadership role in the west. For sure better then Russia or China as an alternative. And now that Bush is gone, there is a real possibility of this beeing achieved. McCain was a good man, I respect him, even if he got sucked into his partys habits lately, which ultimately was his downfall. For this reason he would simply be seen as Bush 2.0 abroad.

For what it's worth, americas self healing still works. That was the case after the McCarthy years, and I am very positive this is in effect now. Good times ahead.

Gratulations to Obama.

[Christopher Snow]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

So Obama has won, and big time at that. Can't say I am dissapointed, even though it will get more rough in Europe now considering Afghanistan. But that's something I am more then willing to take if it means the US comes back into the club of nations respecting human rights and global rules.

Voting Obama alone raised the US reputation by a big margin practically overnight. You guys voted a black president. Big kudos to that, I did not see that coming. Basicly threw a ot of clichés out of the window into the faces of those thinking the US was still too racist. That alone was worth it already, if not anything else.

If I were you, and that includes republicans, I'd be grateful for this already. And that Obama, unlike Bush, also embraces the other party. From an outsiders view, national unity is more then needed in the US right now to tackle the problems. I personally want to see the US come to it's former glory again, it's moreal authority and it's leadership role in the west. For sure better then Russia or China as an alternative. And now that Bush is gone, there is a real possibility of this beeing achieved. McCain was a good man, I respect him, even if he got sucked into his partys habits lately, which ultimately was his downfall. For this reason he would simply be seen as Bush 2.0 abroad.

For what it's worth, americas self healing still works. That was the case after the McCarthy years, and I am very positive this is in effect now. Good times ahead.

Gratulations to Obama.

If Obama takes and holds office for more than a few months (lawsuits notwithstanding), I think you will have cause to regret your enthusiasm this night.

I think you in the EU will very quickly come to realize the AMERICAN SECURITY RUG has been pulled right out from under you.

It won't be long before the Russians realize it too (and begin to press westward.)

Here's a hint for you (oh too late to DO anything about it, but that's the way the real world works I suppose: A SOCIALIST US will NOT be able to support it's end of NATO.

Which means you in the EU are SCREWED. We will no longer have the actual economic strength (let alone the willingness) to support you..and you will not have planned (or put aside savings) in the eventuality of our "failure to provide for your safety."

So the Russians can march right in...and we can't do anything about it (moreover, Obama wouldn't, even if he could--it would be too unpopular for a new President, don't you know...)

...or....

you can hope the Russians aren't feeling their oats.

Do you feel lucky? Do ya?


CS

Originally Posted by Christopher Snow

If Obama takes and holds office for more than a few months (lawsuits notwithstanding), I think you will have cause to regret your enthusiasm this night.

I think you in the EU will very quickly come to realize the AMERICAN SECURITY RUG has been pulled right out from under you.

It won't be long before the Russians realize it too (and begin to press westward.)

Here's a hint for you (oh too late to DO anything about it, but that's the way the real world works I suppose: A SOCIALIST US will NOT be able to support it's end of NATO.

Which means you in the EU are SCREWED. We will no longer have the actual economic strength (let alone the willingness) to support you..and you will not have planned (or put aside savings) in the eventuality of our "failure to provide for your safety."

So the Russians can march right in...and we can't do anything about it (moreover, Obama wouldn't, even if he could--it would be too unpopular for a new President, don't you know...)

...or....

you can hope the Russians aren't feeling their oats.

Do you feel lucky? Do ya?

CS

Right, let's tackle this with a bit more common sense, kay?

First of all, in case of the US, it is not so much about US support for Europe against Russia. Russia has a gross domestic budget comparable to Portugal. They are big with sabre rattling, just like in the cold war era, but there is not much substance behind it to pose a real threat, especially with Russia's number 1 money maker, oil, going to the bottom right now and the country's economy beeing in big big trouble thanks to their Georgia adventure, which caused investors to leave the country, amplified by the financial crisis. Russia has some very basic and deep running domestic problems and is in no state to pose a serious threat within the next 10 years minimum as long no madman with a twitchy finger comes to power. But in such a case it really does not matter what a state the US is in anyways.

What is going to happen is that Obama will ask the Europeans for more support in Afghanistan. And given the current and ongoing debates in Germany about the Afghanistan deployment, and I think ppl here are slowly becoming aware we are fighting a real war there, I expect german and european policy to change to a more agressive stance there, which should help the US quite a bit. As you can see, it is not so much about support from the US to Europe, but vice versa. The US currently is in no condition, from a military POV, to make annother commitment anyways.

What you need to realize is the following. The US lost big time in the last 8 years. I do not know how much this got to the US population, but the world has seen the US becoming a ruthless, almost criminal country from its former status as a beacon of light for the west. Bush utterly corruped and destroyed the picture the world has had of the United States, and this plays a huge role in actual politics, how well the US is recieved and how open other nations are to US leadership and proposals. This does not go for it's allies alone, but to all of the world. The US simply lost respect and authority big time, to a degree much worse then any military debacle in Iraq or Afghanistan could have achieved alone. To regain this morale authority, a capital not as obvious as purely economic or military might, should be the US highest priority. It's more subtle then raw power, but in the end so much more effective in making a country's interest succesfull when it comes to behind the door talks and more importantly, acceptance of the population of any given country.

Now, I am not into US domestic politics too much. I have my personal stances which I am more then willing to make clear, but I seriously do not care "that" much if the US is socialist, social democratic or purely capitalistic. It's your choice what a country you want to live in and it's system. But, from an international POV, voting Obama into Office propably was the biggest gain in international respect the US ever got in one night. You got a huge bonus here after the Bush years, and the world will be willing to listen once again. Bush practically played no role anymore on the international stage. Nobody took him even remotely serious. That to change should even be in the interest of republicans.

[Konovalov]

Indeed Mik.