American Raid in Syria

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

Whether it is out of the blue or not isn't a matter of semantics.
Either there was warning, or there wasn't. Clearly there wasn't.

There was certainly no president for attacking Syrian petrol smugglers.


August: See previous posts for the answer to your 'question'.
Do not keep asking for answers because you did not like the first one.

Of course there was no warning of the strike itself. Should they call the guy on phone and tell him he better get awwy before the choppers arrive? Nevertheless it was no strike out nof the blue, for the reasons August has given, I have had the same info, and repeatedly. the guy was a known variable, he was set to become important within Al Quaeda, and it was clear that then americans wouold react to his activity sooner or later.

And Syria has been warned SINCE YEARS for closing both eyes to terrorists operating from its ground.

the mission execution was kept secret, of course, but in no way one could say the american reaction came "out of the blue". Call it sematics, call it rethorics or any different, but you have no point here different from just wanting to object.

[Letum]

America has been complaining baout border relations with every country that
borders America or borders American occupied territories for ever and a day without
this kind of incident.
But recently relations with Syria have been improving.
And yet you still claim this was in some way expected?

Do you think perhaps that Syria "had it coming"?

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by August

Because after all, countries have every right to shelter and supply the combatants of wars in adjoining countries without any repercussions, right?

It is this kind of anti-neutral stance parts of the right wing movement have that have ruined your chances at a 3rd republican term.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Letum

So the RAF bombing the Irish quarter of New York would have been fine with you guys then?

Smackdown!

Funny how people try to defend this attack.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

It is this kind of anti-neutral stance parts of the right wing movement have that have ruined your chances at a 3rd republican term.

Apparently "Either you are with us , or you are with the terrorists." Bush '01

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

America has been complaining baout border relations with every country that
borders America or borders American occupied territories for ever and a day without
this kind of incident.
But recently relations with Syria have been improving.
And yet you still claim this was in some way expected?

Do you think perhaps that Syria "had it coming"?

Diplomacy. When we shake hands with a massmurder and blackmailer like Ghadaffi again and feed hgim miliztary hightech and nuclear technology, why not declaring relations with Syria as "improving" whuile they have not stopped their interference in Lebanon and have not stopped to support terrorism. diplomacy is the art to replace reality with a lie and still have everybody smiling.

[Letum]

If diplomacy fails to achieve something and war is resorted to, then that is a failure
of diplomacy. When everyone is justly happy, then that is a success of diplomacy.

To throw diplomacy out of the window...
but such has been the American way with foreign relations for so long now.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Is that Dowly's plane? :p

-S

[August]

Originally Posted by Letum

America has been complaining baout border relations with every country that
borders America or borders American occupied territories for ever and a day without
this kind of incident.
But recently relations with Syria have been improving.
And yet you still claim this was in some way expected?

Do you think perhaps that Syria "had it coming"?

Letum do you seriously believe that we launched the raid for that reason? That our military commanders said one day; "Hey lets go into Syria and kill some folks at random. How 'bout it Mr Prez. Iraq is going so well and we're bored!"? Please.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Diplomacy. When we shake hands with a massmurder and blackmailer like Ghadaffi again and feed hgim miliztary hightech and nuclear technology, why not declaring relations with Syria as "improving" whuile they have not stopped their interference in Lebanon and have not stopped to support terrorism. diplomacy is the art to replace reality with a lie and still have everybody smiling.

Skybird is 100% spot on here.

[August]

Originally Posted by Letum

If diplomacy fails to achieve something and war is resorted to, then that is a failure
of diplomacy. When everyone is justly happy, then that is a success of diplomacy.

Diplomacy has been tried for what, 6 years now with absolutely no result? How many of our troops are you willing to get killed while you continue down this useless path?

[Zachstar]

Yes lets start a war with another country so that the first war will be somewhat safer..

Ooook?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Yes lets start a war with another country so that the first war will be somewhat safer..

Ooook?

Do you really think Syria will go to war over this?

PD

[AntEater]

Stupid idea, I mean what is to gain from popping another Abu whatever?
In three weeks, they'l have a new one doing exactly the same thing.
On the other hand, making Syria look as weak as it actually is, that is really counter productive.
Assad is trying to come to grips with Israel. The Israeli elections will have stopped that one cold anyway, but still, Assad is way better than anyone who might succeed him.
Not to mention that Syria is a safehaven for practially every minority there is.
Where do all the Iraqui christians go?
To some of the democratic freedom loving US allies like Jordan or Kuwait or Saudi Arabia?
Not to mention that Syria is almost some kind of ethnological and theological museum of all kinds of religious or ethnic (both mostly go together) minorities like Druze, Arameans, people who worship John the Baptist (forgot their name) and all those other small minorities that have been beaten, raped and arsoned into immigration or conversion in all other muslim countries in the last 20 years, most recently in Iraq after the US liberated the Iraq from all evil.
The same will happen in Syria if Assad falls.
The Assad family himself are Alevites, some kind of reformist shiite ofshoot, a bit similar to protestantism in christianity.
Syria is the only muslim country where Alevites are actually recognized as muslims.

So if Bush really wants to create another mideast cesspit, he should carry on like that.

To the raid itself, did they at least kill the target?
Even from US reports, it seems likely that some construction workers were killed.
First because apparently some people were "threatening" and then killed, which can mean anything from being armed to simply being there and thought to be armed.
Also, firing miniguns from Blackhawks isn't exactly precision warfare.
Since there were no success reports from the US, as they usually do, it might well be that they acted on faulty intel and the target wasn't there.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AntEater

To the raid itself, did they at least kill the target?

At least three media reports I read said the killing of the target person is confirmed. I also live by the impression that it was in the media that they did not leave it to an air attack only, but that at some time they had troops on the ground. That may be the reason why they sent no Apaches or Cobras like the Israelis would have done in case of an air-only attack, but Blackhawks. why else sending a much bigger, more vulnerable, armed transportation helicopter?

I do not question the raid itself if the target person really was the guy the americans claim he was, because then he would have been relatively high on the to-be-hit-list indeed, I just would like to have an examination if a.) it really were 7 civilians being killed, or if some of these maybe were combatants (wouldn't be the first time, really, in Israel's conflict zones it happenes all the time), and b.) if they were civilians why it came to their killing. I assume that internally that already is being done by the military.

If there are other important key figures living on the Syrian side of the border and operating against iraq without the Syrians arresting and sentencing them off, I approve more such strikes as well in order to change their status from alive to dead. Letting them live may cost more lives in the medium and long run. they say there are some pretty nasty explosions happening in Iraq, massacring the civilian population by the many dozens per strike. Feel free to protest against that as well, if you have the interest - it just will not make a difference.