Is "locking on a target" really realistic?

[Anachronous]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Figure out a way to do all that while you keep the scope centered on the target, and you've solved the problem. Until then, having the scope locked on is the most realistic way possible.

Co-op mode, where you make the whole family man a station each, and new periscope style game controllers. :P

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Anachronous

Co-op mode, where you make the whole family man a station each, and new periscope style game controllers. :P

But most of us won't play that way 90% of the time, and in single play you still have the problem.

Your 'PControl (tm)' is a good idea, but you'd need a perfect voice-command system to go with it.

[breadcatcher101]

I thought it was just in gameplay. It does make it easier since you are a one man operation. I have done it the "real" way, it does work but I had the ease of a clear day and a target with a slow speed which gave me time. Even so I had to pause the game once.

[Nisgeis]

JT sonar, the replacement for JP sonar gear in mid 1945 could be driven from the TDC. It had an indicator showing whether the target was to the right or left of the bearing it was trained on, so you could easily see if the target was lagging or leading the generated bearing and so check accuracy. It was very accurate as well, about 2 degrees if I remember right. So the technology was there to have the periscope aligned to the projected bearing from the TDC, it probably wasn't implemented as the sonar would have been used continuously, whilst the periscope only once in a while, so the need to have it track wasn't there.

Skippers didn't like exposing their periscope and minimised the time it was up. It takes a while to operate the stadimeter for example as you have to wind things into place. Using the horizontal stadimeter takes even longer to get an AoB measurement and was hardly ever used. Automatic periscope training was probably a cost that wasn't deemed warranted, or maybe it would have taken time to engage/disengage... not the sort of thing you want when you want to get a bearing and then take a quick sweep for escorts.

[theluckyone17]

Originally Posted by Anachronous

Co-op mode, where you make the whole family man a station each, and new periscope style game controllers. :P

Yeah, right. I can guarantee you no WW2 sub captain ever put up with the verbal abuse I'd receive if I tried to give my wife orders.

What's that? She supposed to be the captain? Well then, we've nothing to worry about. We'll never get out of the harbor

[PortsmouthProwler]

OK, here's my two cents on targeting:

* I've read a **lot** about WW2 Pacific Ops. Also, I worked at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, right on the boats.

* Historical reality: Correct, you want to minimize scope exposure. US doctrine pre-war was submerged sonar attacks - but as soon as the shooting began, they rapidly ashcanned it, 'cuz it didn't work - trying to sink things from 75 feet dowm by sound wasn't a good technique.

* So skippers and officers learned by OJT. Just like the Kriegsmarine found out, the most effective attacks were night surface (see Red Rampage). Also, yes, it's desirable to use the equipment, however, as Dick O'Kane figured out, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

* With experience, a knowledgeable officer can eyeball range and speed. AOB can be within 15 degrees, really; it's the least important element. Remember, they had a good idea of LOA and LWL for most vessels. Hmmm, it just took 5 seconds for a vessel to pass through the hair from stem to stern and she's about 300' LOA - do the arithmetic. In SH 1, I got pretty good at eyeballing range, speed, and AOB. Never bothered with SH2 and got fairly good with SH3, tho' it's harder with water on your scope, etc. Good realism.

* But the single most important consideration is your approach. No quarter, mates, this is all about sneakiness and skullduggery. Find the baseline course for that convoy and 'end-around' it, ambush the bastards every time, if you can. Sneak past those escorts and get to less than 1,000 yards, preferably 750. Errors in your estimates matter little at point-blank range.

* Then get the hell out of there. Destroyers aren't really prizes, what you want is the merchants, and capital ships when you encounter a naval task force.

* And for real historicity, you should be very frustrated and/or dead until the early fall of '43, when the the torpedo problems were finally and truly solved. Until then, you should be gnashing your teeth and cursing BuOrd.

Happy Hunting!

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by PortsmouthProwler

OK, here's my two cents on targeting:

* I've read a **lot** about WW2 Pacific Ops. Also, I worked at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, right on the boats.

* Historical reality: Correct, you want to minimize scope exposure. US doctrine pre-war was submerged sonar attacks - but as soon as the shooting began, they rapidly ashcanned it, 'cuz it didn't work - trying to sink things from 75 feet dowm by sound wasn't a good technique.

* So skippers and officers learned by OJT. Just like the Kriegsmarine found out, the most effective attacks were night surface (see Red Rampage). Also, yes, it's desirable to use the equipment, however, as Dick O'Kane figured out, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

* With experience, a knowledgeable officer can eyeball range and speed. AOB can be within 15 degrees, really; it's the least important element. Remember, they had a good idea of LOA and LWL for most vessels. Hmmm, it just took 5 seconds for a vessel to pass through the hair from stem to stern and she's about 300' LOA - do the arithmetic. In SH 1, I got pretty good at eyeballing range, speed, and AOB. Never bothered with SH2 and got fairly good with SH3, tho' it's harder with water on your scope, etc. Good realism.

* But the single most important consideration is your approach. No quarter, mates, this is all about sneakiness and skullduggery. Find the baseline course for that convoy and 'end-around' it, ambush the bastards every time, if you can. Sneak past those escorts and get to less than 1,000 yards, preferably 750. Errors in your estimates matter little at point-blank range.

* Then get the hell out of there. Destroyers aren't really prizes, what you want is the merchants, and capital ships when you encounter a naval task force.

* And for real historicity, you should be very frustrated and/or dead until the early fall of '43, when the the torpedo problems were finally and truly solved. Until then, you should be gnashing your teeth and cursing BuOrd.

Happy Hunting!

Wow! And here i am using auto targetting, and i still get frustrated cause of those duds! :rotfl:. Some good advice there

[Sailor Steve]

PortsmouthProwler, that was a great summation! If I didn't get to welcome you before, WELCOME ABOARD!

However, one item leaped off the screen at me. It was probably just a typo, but I felt the need to say something.

Originally Posted by PortsmouthProwler

(see Red Rampage)

Given the context, I'm sure you meant Lawson "Red" Ramage. Though his actions really could be described as a 'Red Rampage'.:rotfl:

And it won him the Medal of Honor.
http://www.ussnautilus.org/undersea/ramage.html

[PortsmouthProwler]

Thanks, guys, appreciate it. Oh, I did mean "Red" Rampage - the very definition of courage under fire.

Ya see, ya gotta be patient - really, reallllly patient to sneak up to 800 yards. All my indiscretions have come from lack of patience.

The easiest way, as I said, is to set up in front of their base course. Of course, time and circumstances may dictate otherwise.

Read War Fish by George Grider - probably the best account of a submariner's experiences in the Pacific.

[Wilcke]

PortsmouthProwler,

Exactly! Well done, good summation.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by PortsmouthProwler

Oh, I did mean "Red" Rampage - the very definition of courage under fire.

:rotfl:

Sorry to laugh, but my only point was that it was Ramage - no 'p'.

[PortsmouthProwler]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

:rotfl:

Sorry to laugh, but my only point was that it was Ramage - no 'p'.

Yeah, I finally caught it myself - I do it all the time - sorry, Red!

[breadcatcher101]

How do you guys set up your spread shots? When I have 2 type ships I set my torpedoes to run about 3 feet under kneel. These settings will differ of course depending on the draft of the type ship. I click the torpedoes afterward and they reflect these settings except the spread angle which has gone back to zero. Do I have to set the spread angle as I fire?

I like to use 1 shot if possible to save my torp count unless I am attacking a convoy where I may not get a chance to use my deck gun or to use a followup shot. I just don't want all to hit the same spot. I work around the spread angle dial by adjusting the speed slightly which will work but does take a bit more time. When a escort is pinging me I want to get my shot(s) over with and go deep.

Am I leaving a step out in using the spread dial?

[Wilcke]

Originally Posted by breadcatcher101

How do you guys set up your spread shots? When I have 2 type ships I set my torpedoes to run about 3 feet under kneel. These settings will differ of course depending on the draft of the type ship. I click the torpedoes afterward and they reflect these settings except the spread angle which has gone back to zero. Do I have to set the spread angle as I fire?

I like to use 1 shot if possible to save my torp count unless I am attacking a convoy where I may not get a chance to use my deck gun or to use a followup shot. I just don't want all to hit the same spot. I work around the spread angle dial by adjusting the speed slightly which will work but does take a bit more time. When a escort is pinging me I want to get my shot(s) over with and go deep.

Am I leaving a step out in using the spread dial?

The spread setting in degrees plus left or right once set affects all the gyros in each torpedo unlike the depth setting. I do a lot of O' Kane shots so the spreads are a factor of time/ship movement. Its more of a situational/tactical thing when using the spread dial.

When using the spread dial you have to be very cognizant of range and do a bit more math. I degree at 500 yards is not a big deal but at 8000 yards its a whole backyard plus the barn.

Frankly, I just do not use the spread dial anymore. Its not about torpedoes anymore its about tactics. I guess what I am trying to say is you can historically try to duplicate what the USN tactics were at the outset of the sub war in the Pacific and then move on from there. Once the torpedo issues were resolved in '43, it was tactics and aggression that put torpedoes into targets and kept the subs from being sunk by the enemies ASW assets.

More folks will chime in with more info for you.

Happy Hunting!

[doulos05]

Originally Posted by Wilcke

Frankly, I just do not use the spread dial anymore. Its not about torpedoes anymore its about tactics. I guess what I am trying to say is you can historically try to duplicate what the USN tactics were at the outset of the sub war in the Pacific and then move on from there. Once the torpedo issues were resolved in '43, it was tactics and aggression that put torpedoes into targets and kept the subs from being sunk by the enemies ASW assets.

Whoa! Wait, you don't use the speed dial? How does that work? Can you tell me what method you use?