Bring on the Black Holes !

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Though, if science is right, and there was nothing prior to the "big bang" where did the something come from to cause it?

Well, the detailed parts of the theory state that a singularity contained all these elements that make up the universe today (gravity, fusion, fission, forces, etc.), and it exploded to unleash all these elements which made the universe as we know it. That's where the universe came from. Now where the singularity came from, that would be the part that's always existed. In fact, if the Big Rip Theory holds water (and it does indeed seem to), all matter within the universe will once again come together into a singularity and then be unleashed, and a new universe will form. This process will happen forever.

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I am certain of one thing... creation is something that has to be caused it can't happen by accident because of particles bumping into each other.

Nature works in mysterious ways.

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Not believing in God or a higher power if you will is fine... just cause you personally don't believe it doesn't mean its not there or does not exist. This is going to sound incredibly arrogant but, I'm going to say it anyway...

It doesn't sound arrogant in the least. You're patient and calm, at least, compared to some of the others.

With that said, yes, it's possible a God exists. However, no proof has been presented that he does exist (It has made no attempt to make contact with us, and It has not made Itself obvious).

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Science does not have all the answers. And yes... there are limits to what can be achieved.

Which is why research and study is important. Science has potential to discover all the answers, but there are boundaries, so while it has potential, it still cannot discover them all.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Though, if science is right, and there was nothing prior to the "big bang" where did the something come from to cause it?

That's the point: I don't know, they don't know, and you don't know. In other words, we don't know and we can't know.

I am certain of one thing... creation is something that has to be caused it can't happen by accident because of particles bumping into each other.

I'm glad you're certain, because I'm not. You see, we have know way of knowing.

Not believing in God or a higher power if you will is fine... just cause you personally don't believe it doesn't mean its not there or does not exist. This is going to sound incredibly arrogant but, I'm going to say it anyway...

Unfortunately the opposite is also true: just because you believe it doesn't make it so.

Science does not have all the answers. And yes... there are limits to what can be achieved.

That's the point of science: it's about finding out what can be explained, not worrying about what can't. Science doesn't pretend to have all the answers. That's religion's job.

And once again, we don't know if there are limits to what can be achieved unless we try to find them. And even if there are, we don't know what those limits are unless we test them.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Though, if science is right, and there was nothing prior to the "big bang" where did the something come from to cause it?

I am certain of one thing... creation is something that has to be caused it can't happen by accident because of particles bumping into each other.

No physicist has ever claimed that there was nothing prior to the big bang. It was not nothing turning into everything. The best answer I can give to this would be "We dont know, but we are trying to find out." Saying that god did it seems like a lazy way because it replaces one unknown with another.

Not believing in God or a higher power if you will is fine... just cause you personally don't believe it doesn't mean its not there or does not exist. This is going to sound incredibly arrogant but, I'm going to say it anyway...

Science does not have all the answers. And yes... there are limits to what can be achieved.

I agree, science does not have all the answers, to claim otherways would be arrogant and ignorant. If science had all the answers experimentation would be pointless, life would be incredibly boring. But the only limit to what humanity can achieve is the limit of our imagination and time, with ennough time unlocking all the secrets of the universe will eventualy be unlocked.

Anyway thats my take on things, ofcourse I could be wrong.

Edit: This has been one of the most fascinating threads ever on subsim forums and itäs nice that there are people with different opinions in a discussion where discution is respectful.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

discovered in the
post apocalyptic data analysis from the experiment destroying
ubootecomradeland

The quantum singularity itself not only will sustain a microfusion
massive energy surplus but may be contained in a self sustaining
fold into the ninth dimension of hyperspace.

Thus powering my interstellar fleet of trained uboat and fleet boat
skippers who adapt quickly to going dark and folding in and out of
realspace in stealth mode in their Stealth Battlestars.

Support civil liberties for AI Bill and we will all get through this.

The dreamer's realm.:rotfl:

The String Theory has always fascinated me, ever since I could read. What these dimensions could hold and teach us... and to think we're only one of twelve, yet we're so complex in our own right. It could take a trillion years before we'd be able to learn about half of what our universe has to offer... sad, but that's life.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

The dreamer's realm.:rotfl:

The String Theory has always fascinated me, ever since I could read. What these dimensions could hold and teach us... and to think we're only one of twelve, yet we're so complex in our own right. It could take a trillion years before we'd be able to learn about half of what our universe has to offer... sad, but that's life.

Try not to think of it so much as humanity finds a way as life itself
finds a way if not by us then by the next or the one after that but
sooner or later life will expand outwards. relentlessly and remorselessly
as it always has.

humanity is just a manifestation of sentient life in its resident biosphere
if we pooch it that wont stop the process.

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Unfortunately the opposite is also true: just because you believe it doesn't make it so.

What if I told you that I don't "believe", I know for certain... Now, you may think, anyhting in reply to that. But I digress...

That's the point of science: it's about finding out what can be explained, not worrying about what can't. Science doesn't pretend to have all the answers. That's religion's job.

I find that remark to be a slap in the face of my contributions to the discussion here, at the very least rather condescending. Religion has not got all the answers either, in fact there are lots of it that could be ruled out as bogus... and I'm no Bible basher either.

the truth of the matter is that this machine could be dangerous. "Experts" say no. But experts can get it wrong. Suppose the pursuit of knowledge ends up killing us all? I for one don't want my life, which I am fortunate to have, gambled with by some four-eyed egghead in a white lab coat who wants to find something out he cannot ever know the true answers to.

My point is, there is always cause and effect. That is one constant of the universe and if you don't believe me watch the Matrix Reloaded.



A better question science could turn its attention to is what is the universe expanding into, and what happens when it can expand no more?

Physicists don't know about what caused the universe or what was there before, and they never will. They will have theories, and hell one of them may be right, but no human will have the answer to the question they are asking.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by darius359au

Hopefully one of the Research assistants isn't called Gordon Freeman
Especially after someone on another forum found this http://lhc-hl-lh.ytmnd.com/

"Wake up Mr Freeman....Wake up and smell the..Ashes"

:rotfl::rotfl:

Prepare...for unforeseen consequences....

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

the truth of the matter is that this machine could be dangerous. "Experts" say no. But experts can get it wrong. Suppose the pursuit of knowledge ends up killing us all? I for one don't want my life, which I am fortunate to have, gambled with by some four-eyed egghead in a white lab coat who wants to find something out he cannot ever know the true answers to.

What you must understand (and please don't think I'm talking down to you) is that black holes are only as dangerous as the amount of energy that you put directly into them. There's really nothing to be worried about given the design and power configurations of the particle collider.

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

A better question science could turn its attention to is what is the universe expanding into, and what happens when it can expand no more?

This is where the Big Rip Theory holds water. The universe is just expanding (stretching, basically). When it can't expand anymore, then all the particles and atoms and such in existence will break apart, and they will form return to a singularity (though the atoms will be destroyed). The universe will begin again, and you repeat this same process.

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Physicists don't know about what caused the universe or what was there before, and they never will. They will have theories, and hell one of them may be right, but no human will have the answer to the question they are asking.

Nobody knows how it began, and no human will ever have the answer, be they a believer in God or a follower of science.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Prepare...for unforeseen consequences....

Seriously, though, that guy is pretty creative to make the HEV suit.

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Nobody knows how it began, and no human will ever have the answer, be they a believer in God or a follower of science.

You are so right on both counts there SH!

However it doesn't stop people (me as well to a degree) fearing what could happen if the machine did go wrong...

Also...

This is where the Big Rip Theory holds water. The universe is just expanding (stretching, basically). When it can't expand anymore, then all the particles and atoms and such in existence will break apart, and they will form return to a singularity (though the atoms will be destroyed). The universe will begin again, and you repeat this same process.

Theoretically of course. But the truth is... that some things go beyond human understanding, and the universe is probably top of that list.

I'm just happy we've seen eye to eye on the whole nobody knows how it began, and no human will ever have the answer thing... because it doesn't get more accurate than that.

[Letum]

Until it is proved we can't understand something, we should not make such assumptions.


Also:


LIVE WEB CAMS FROM THE LHC

[Blacklight]

In fact, if the Big Rip Theory holds water (and it does indeed seem to), all matter within the universe will once again come together into a singularity and then be unleashed, and a new universe will form.

The Big Rip theory is actually the opposite of that. You're talking about "The Big Crunch" which would happen if there is a significant ammount of matter in the universe to begin contracting it so everything eventually comes together into a singularity again.
It does not appear to be happening as the universes' expansion appears to be accellerating in speed instead of decreasing over time.
The Big Rip theory is basically this: We know that the universes' expansion speed is increasing at a constant speed every moment. We know how fast the speed is increasing. We also know that space and time are streachy and are being streached out by the expansion. We also know how streachy space and time is. Eventually, the speed of the expansion will get to a speed in which space and time can't streach to keep up with it and it will tear itself to shreds. The process will begin with the very large structures like galaxies and then work it's way down to atomic particles. First.. galaxies will fly apart, then stars will fly apart, then planets will fly apart, then, eventually atoms themselves will fly apart.
Here is a nice and interesting video that explains it:

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

What if I told you that I don't "believe", I know for certain... Now, you may think, anyhting in reply to that. But I digress...

I'd say at that point that you were being arrogant, if you meant it. I too used to "know for certain", but I've since learned that I don't actually "know" much of anything, and those that do "know for certain" are usually either fooling themselves or hiding something; both of which are scary.

I find that remark to be a slap in the face of my contributions to the discussion here, at the very least rather condescending. Religion has not got all the answers either, in fact there are lots of it that could be ruled out as bogus... and I'm no Bible basher either.

That was written in direct reaction to this:

I am certain of one thing... creation is something that has to be caused it can't happen by accident because of particles bumping into each other.

Which appeared to me to be condescending.

the truth of the matter is that this machine could be dangerous. "Experts" say no. But experts can get it wrong. Suppose the pursuit of knowledge ends up killing us all? I for one don't want my life, which I am fortunate to have, gambled with by some four-eyed egghead in a white lab coat who wants to find something out he cannot ever know the true answers to.

I agree that they could be wrong, but they also thought there was at least a reasonable chance that when they tested the first atomic bomb that it would set the atmosphere on fire and destroy all life on earth. It could happen, but even disagreeing how will you stop them from trying it.

My point is, there is always cause and effect. That is one constant of the universe and if you don't believe me watch the Matrix Reloaded.

Your point is based on a bad piece of fiction? (Just playing here. I agree there is cause and effect, but again if no one ever tried anything we'd have no phones, no lights, no motorcars.)

A better question science could turn its attention to is what is the universe expanding into, and what happens when it can expand no more?

Do you believe that none of them have thought about that? That none of them are looking into it? It's even harder to discover the future than the past.

Physicists don't know about what caused the universe or what was there before, and they never will. They will have theories, and hell one of them may be right, but no human will have the answer to the question they are asking.

But many mystics and true believers claim to have just that.

I'm not trying to put you down at all. I just disagree with some of your assumptions.

[Task Force]

Hey were all still alive.:p Or they havent done it.:hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

Many, many years ago Robert A. Heinlein wrote a short story about scientists keeping a captive black hole on the moon. It breaks free and slowly starts drifting around, sucking up everything in sight. But it's microscopic in size, so it will take decades for it to do its job.

Originally Posted by Task Force

Hey were all still alive.:p Or they havent done it.:hmm:

These things take time. We may all be dead and just haven't noticed yet.