Russia used cluster bombs in Georgia

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

I think you nailed it, I don't believe these weapons are actually so valuable militarily speaking.

Besides when you see the numbers of duds left on the ground you're led to wonder wether it's intentional or not. Actually wondering is even naïve, IMO this weapon is mostly used to "polute" the ground and screw the people living there. In the HRW article on Georgia they say the fields ready for harvesting or used for livestock are full of duds, what kind of strategic military target is that ? Btw it's the same in south Lebanon, but it's true that over there terrorists could eventually hide under the olive trees.
I wonder if Russia will accept to send precise data of the areas targetted for demining (which Israel refused).

Our defence is a prime exsample that cannot function without these, we dont plan to litter them just all over the place. Though im sure the Russians would, i dont think they will sign a ban ever.

[Kapitan]

CBU units have been restricted on use but not banned most countries including france germany uk usa have signed the treaty restricting thier useage in civilian areas however RUSSIA DID NOT !

Most of georgias equipment is russian and it states the obvious the the russians use russian equipment too, prove it on a battle field you cant.

Its war you could not tell me you would not do the same to protect your own country in that situation because if you dont use them im pretty sure your enamy will and thats the diffrence between victory and defeat.

Its war get over it it happens.

[Kapitan]

A year ago now we had a WW2 mine find its way up the thames river shall we ban mines too?

Last week we had an unexploded shell in shoebury ness shall we ban these too?

Nuclear bombs were dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki shall we ban these as well?

At the end of the day to achieve peace you must first go to war Albert Einstiene once said "i know not with what weapons WW3 will be fought with but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones"

War is part of human life the earliest man was found with a spear in his rib cage if we dont use weapons to our own advantage then we will be over run and taken war involves everybody civilian or millatry, its the civilians who make the weapons the millatry who use them so by killing both you defeat the country in hand cut the supply you have achieved a major goal thats what donetz tried to do with his u boats.

You can easily sit in your arm chair saying how bad war is and that we shouldnt use this that and the offical statistics realsed by BIAS sources didcate that x amount is a dud weapon and crap like that most people are clueless as to what the thing does.

There was a legislation past with the UN security council stating that air craft should stay in the area untill the weapon is detonated or if it does fail report the location back to thier CO first put into practice in the Afghanistan war used sucsessfully in iraq untill thier air defence systems started to shoot them down so to get round it they put in GPS locators so they can find where the weapon is when they eventually get there.

If you dont like CBU's dont read about them dont listen about them blank them USA used CBU's to carpet bomb most of the afghan areas dropped from B52's

War is a fact of life and its people who protest about it that makes it even harder for the troops personally if i was incharge of a country and anti war actavist activly protesting around millatery sites i would have them executed on the grounds of treason and sabotage.

[SUBMAN1]

Everyone uses CBU's. Not a big deal. The reports that they were used on civilians disturbs me a bit, but civilians is a legitimate target in war, not barred by the Geneva convention. Break the will of the civilians and you break the will of the people to fight back.

An example is the US firebombing German civilians in WWII.

The funny thing is, no one gives the US credit these days for carefully working around civilians. They don't have to do this. They just do it because they care. So they use more expensive bombs in place of cheaper ones that could possibly do collateral damage.

Russia has no such qualms. They don't have to either.

-S

[Wreford-Brown]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

but civilians is a legitimate target in war, not barred by the Geneva convention.

Break the will of the civilians and you break the will of the people to fight back.
-S

Civilians ARE NOT a legitimate target, and nor are unarmed soldiers. They are both protected by the Geneva Convention:

The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols are part of international humanitarian law – a whole system of legal safeguards that cover the way wars may be fought and the protection of individuals.
They specifically protect people who do not take part in the fighting (civilians, medics, chaplains, aid workers) and those who can no longer fight (wounded, sick and shipwrecked troops, prisoners of war).
The Conventions and their Protocols call for measures to be taken to prevent (or put an end to) what are known as "grave breaches"; those responsible for breaches must be punished.

The Geneva Conventions have been acceded to by 194 States and enjoy universal acceptance.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0...evaconventions

[Kapitan]

The geneva convention is only applicable to those countries that have signed it and as south ossetia hasnt signed the geneva convention there fore civilians are legitimate targets.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

The geneva convention is only applicable to those countries that have signed it and as south ossetia hasnt signed the geneva convention there fore civilians are legitimate targets.

Georgia signed it, there fore it is applicable.

[JHuschke]

However, I do hope Russia wins the war but I think anyone has the right to use any type of weapon in war. It's a war right? U.S. doesn't need to tell other countries what to do..it can become a war for America. I assure you, it would be a win for Russia if there was a war between them and the U.S. Having fought in Iraq for years there aren't enough troops and enough resources to fight back. Of course there are reserves but even that wouldn't be enough.

Don't try to involve yourselves in a war blaming a country for starting a war when it was defending itself.

[CaptHawkeye]

Ya know, the idea that we can have a "controlled war" or "moderated war" is a very modern idea. All throughout history people have never done that, or shown much motivation for it. It's just a contemporary notion that one can wage a "civil" war that's come from the "self-esteem" hand holding society we run these days. War is hell. No amount of Geneva Conventions or Rules will change it. It some ways, it should not be changed.

[Mush Martin]

I find the debate of the morality of various types of bombs a little
strange. I realize this stuff comes up Dum Dum bullets and bloodgroves
come to mind.

But if your in your in for a penny or a pound your in to win not lose
if it works use it.

Thermobaryc weapons are a reasonably horrible to die from Im sure
but the decision is made not to chew up son's doing it with boots.
and Kaboom the morality of the decision is the same type of reasoning
and rationale used by truman. why should I send folks to die again
if I have a tool to subdue the enemy.

different types of bombs have different applications but all applications
are against the enemy.

I dont feel that a cluster bomb a thermobaryc weapon or
a neutron bomb are any more or less moral than a hand grenade.

JMO
MM

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

And that post is precisely the reason why you're not in charge

Btw, I don't mind war, personally I think it's got to be the one of most thrilling sport on earth even if a bit cheap compared to alpinism. But anyway when I practice any sport I never try to involve bystanders.

Oh and the WWII comparison is total BS, it was a full scale war where indeed the people was the backbone of the military. Here Russia would eat the whole Georgian army no matter the will of the Georgian people and Georgia could cover Russia with cluster bombs it wouldn't change that fact. If they targetted civilians it's pure hatred nothing else, support that as much as you want.

One man with a strong will and determination can defeat an army.

i dont support the attacking of civilians but according to western democracy everyone has the right of free expression and speech the ossetians are trying to embrace the way the want to live along side russia so why is georgia challenging this personally the clap trap the americans give out is more BS than ever.

[August]

On the other hand we have the thousands of Georgians driven out of their homes in their own country because Russia wants control of those provinces.