New to GWX and frustrated

[seafarer]

It's not just the sinking time setting. GWX 2.0 and 2.1 have more realistic damage model. Stock SHIII (and SHIV for that matter) are far too arcade-like - in part because of a simple (and generous) hit-point damage model.

[BasilY]

Originally Posted by seafarer

It's not just the sinking time setting. GWX 2.0 and 2.1 have more realistic damage model. Stock SHIII (and SHIV for that matter) are far too arcade-like - in part because of a simple (and generous) hit-point damage model.

That's all good.

7 torp hits on six ships (half of them under 4000GRT). And I got them at or near the fuel/engine area. I don't expect all of them to sink. But none of them?
3 torps hits to sink a 2000GRT merchant?

Like I said, in the REAL world some ships takes a long time to sink:

HMS Ark Royal sink after 16 hours by one torp hit.

Some takes a very short time. HMS Couragous (22500GRT) take 17 minutes to sink after 2 hits.


For the game to be truly realistic, some ship may take long time to sink some much shorter. That will be realistic. Making every ship took forever to sink isn't being realistic at all.

And whatis the difference between checking and unchecking the "realistic sinking time" option?

[Tim Stan Armstrong]

Mate not all ships take ages to sink, i reckon the more time you spend playing GWX 2.1 the better your understanding of sink times will be.

[Sailor Steve]

Very true: variety is the spice of life (and the reality). There are many records of ships taking several torpedoes and still taking hours to go down. And there are records of ships sinking in 30 seconds.

I haven't played enough GWX to know of the latter happens much, but I don't want to go back to the stock game having every single ship explode and sink instantly.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by BasilY

That's all good.

7 torp hits on six ships (half of them under 4000GRT). And I got them at or near the fuel/engine area. I don't expect all of them to sink. But none of them?
3 torps hits to sink a 2000GRT merchant?

Like I said, in the REAL world some ships takes a long time to sink:

HMS Ark Royal sink after 16 hours by one torp hit.

Some takes a very short time. HMS Couragous (22500GRT) take 17 minutes to sink after 2 hits.


For the game to be truly realistic, some ship may take long time to sink some much shorter. That will be realistic. Making every ship took forever to sink isn't being realistic at all.

And whatis the difference between checking and unchecking the "realistic sinking time" option?

<long sigh... >

At no time during the construction of the GWX ship damage/sinking models, was the 'realistic sinking' times option left un-selected. If you as a player, are leaving that option un-selected... you will get unpredictable, and pehaps even paradoxical results in-game. During the production of GWX, we were not concerned in the slightest with the effect of leaving that option un-selected. Some cursory tests were made while leaving it unchecked. However, on finding results that did not make sense, the idea of having two different damage models was quickly abandoned.

GWX was designed with the intent that players select 'realistic sinking times.'

You are flatly incorrect that most ships in GWX take hours to sink. Critical (chance-lucky) hits can cause sinkings to occur in as little as 1-3 minutes. Otherwise, a number of variables influence sinkings in GWX. Read page 85-87 of the GWX manual.

The average ship sinking in GWX will occur in under 90 minutes in most cases depending on how much damage was sustained. To be exact, sinking times will usually be anywhere from 1-90 minutes... not an average of 90 minutes.

Torpedo damage output is random. Not every hit should cause a sinking... and you must remember too that merchant ship crews also had damage control teams that might try to save their ship.

In WWII the average ship took 1.5 torpedoes to sink it. (1.5 torpedoes hitting the target and detonating to be more exact... this figure does not count torpedoes that missed.)

While I am here...

Please also note, that the special effects mods (fires, explosions, flying bodies etc.) included with GWX do not cause any damage (progressive or otherwise) AT ALL! They are simply graphic representations of the damage your weapon(s) inflicted.

[HW3]

I sank a empire freighter with one torpedo using GWX 2.1, so it can happen. It all depends on where you hit them, and if you happen to get a lucky shot. I usually always fire at least 2 torpedoes at a ship.

[Brer Rabbit]

During my current GWX career, at 80% realism, off the eastern coast of GB, I shot two eels at a med cargo. Both struck amidships. The crew cheer went up, the sunk ship icon appeared on the map, and the Cpts Log indicated credit; however after looking through the pericsope, it showed the ship, on fire and listing slightly but underway. I took the credit and ran expecting a ton of DDs to arrive on the scene.

My question is had I hung around, would I have eventually seen the ship sink, and is it normal for GWX to give credit if the engine determines that the damage was enough to cause the ship to sink?

Thanks

[Teh_Diplomat]

Get this,

I ran into an enemy taskforce in the AN13 grid... It's the HMS Nelson(32'000 Tons). Range is 2400m, 87 AOB. Four eels in my salvo, 3 meter depth setting, Fast speed.


First eel duds and sinks within 500m, at 1800m another one dies . I'm listening on hydros for the impact.... *waiting* ..... nothing, both hit and do not detonate.

[rifleman13]

About the damage model...

'Tis was my 4th patrol in a Type VIIC I was cruising along SW of the Rockall Banks and my crew sighted a lone Passenger/Cargo ship. Since it was calm seas and no escorts are around I decided use a deck gun on it.

The first shot, it exploded like I hit something explosive. Just I fired the second shot, it exploded again and my Watch Officer said, "She's going down!" I was highly excited not wasting any more rounds on that thing.

Is that random, or it could be I was just lucky I hit the fuel bunkers?:hmm:

BTW, GWX rocks! Big time!

[Phaedrus]

Try to stick with the convoy a little longer - The ships will eventually sink.

I would also advise keeping "Realistic Sinking Times" unchecked.
It extends the sinking time of ships far too much, and is unrealistic.


As far as the offical history of the British Navy is concerned, as well as other studies of merchant shipping during WW II: 80 - 85% of ships torpedoed between 1940-1945 sunk within 1 minute of the initial impact, with only 13% surviving for an hour or more.

Some ships certainly beat the odds and survived single, as well as multiple torpedo hits, but these were the exceptions rather than the norm.

Generally, ships that survived torpedo attacks were tankers (particularly tankers in ballast, but all tankers proved difficult to sink due to compartmentalization), and cargo ships carrying buoyant cargo such as timber or empty oil / fluid drums.


In short, keep your current settings, but try to send two torpedoes per target just to be sure.

If you insist on single torpedoes, aim your torpedo near the bow (if you are sufficiently skilled in manual targeting), or at the engine room (beneath the funnel(s) ).

Given enough time, those two methods are the most practical ways to ensure one shot kills - but I usually only pick the nicest targets and send two to each.


Regarding patrol tonnage: Be prepared for a dramatic drop in tonnage compared to SH3 Stock.
If you are using high realism settings (limited fuel, realistic reload, dud torpedoes) expect to gain 30 000 on an ideal patrol. Anything above is exceptional.

As stated in a previous reply, GWX is not really intended to be an arcade experience.

You should find that you get tonnage totals closer to realistic values.

Have fun,


Phaedrus

[UnderseaLcpl]

I would like to say that IMO the GWX team did a fantastic job of making realistic ship damage.
If you're having trouble sinking ships it's because you are unlucky or hitting the wrong place or both.
The best place for a one hit kill seems to be the bow, where it begins to taper down, but not right on the prow. If you do it correctly the torpedo blast spot should be visible on both sides of the ship.
I don't know how ship damage is coded or calculated or anything but ships with a big hole in the bow seem to plow themselves underwater in relatively short order.
Also the manual says that cargo is a factor, so if you hit a 4000-ton freighter full of lumber then yes I can see it taking 2-3 hits.
My only regret is that fires don't do damage over time. This should have been in the stock game. Whether the GWX crew was either unable to change it or didn't care to I'm not about to overlook all the fantastic features of GWX just to complain about that.

Just my two cents.


edit- tankers are another highly variable ship. For me they either take one hit or several. I wonder if GWX represents empty tankers with water ballast.

[BasilY]

Originally Posted by rifleman13

About the damage model...

'Tis was my 4th patrol in a Type VIIC I was cruising along SW of the Rockall Banks and my crew sighted a lone Passenger/Cargo ship. Since it was calm seas and no escorts are around I decided use a deck gun on it.

The first shot, it exploded like I hit something explosive. Just I fired the second shot, it exploded again and my Watch Officer said, "She's going down!" I was highly excited not wasting any more rounds on that thing.

Is that random, or it could be I was just lucky I hit the fuel bunkers?:hmm:

BTW, GWX rocks! Big time!

Never had that kind of luck. How close are you to the target? With sea state anything more than 4 knots, and your target armed and dangerous, I rarely take down a merchant with anything less than 20 shots. I almost always substain some damagein return. The visual image of your target rarely betrays any sign that it is about to sink. So I am certainly using more shots that necesary. Lone merchant in GWX? What lone merchant?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Brer Rabbit

During my current GWX career, at 80% realism, off the eastern coast of GB, I shot two eels at a med cargo. Both struck amidships. The crew cheer went up, the sunk ship icon appeared on the map, and the Cpts Log indicated credit; however after looking through the pericsope, it showed the ship, on fire and listing slightly but underway. I took the credit and ran expecting a ton of DDs to arrive on the scene.

My question is had I hung around, would I have eventually seen the ship sink, and is it normal for GWX to give credit if the engine determines that the damage was enough to cause the ship to sink?

Thanks

The answer to your first question is....Yes, you would more than likely have seen the ship sink.

For example: Let us say a ship has a number of damage points. Once that level of points has been reached, the ship is beyond saving.

In answer to your second question...It is the game engine that determines/calculates when sufficient damage has been caused. In collaboration with the GWX damage system.

[BasilY]

About that GWX manual... Would love to get a copy. the link provided by this website is broken.

Anyway, run last two patrols with the realistic sinking time check. Ship sinkings seem to be a bit more consistant. I think GWX should consider taking the option away since it will probably not function well. Did sink one ship (Costal Freight) with one torp fairly quickly. All other merchants seem to require 2 solid hits, and lots of time, to sink. Just wonder if the confirmation of some of those eventual sinkings will filter back to the Bdu one day...

I still want to find out how to get the direction indicator on the nav map back. Anyone know?