Obama running scared. Refuse to debate Clinton

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

We are not "We the people...." She is correct in the respect concerning the popular vote. In a way I sympathize with Hillary in this matter.

no sympathy here. Hillary is a seasoned politician. She knew that this was a straight Delegate race. She ran a dreadful campaign, failed to caucus and totally underestimated Obama.

Only when she started losing did she start talking about the popular vote...something politicians do when they are losing by the specified criteria of the campaign they are running.

[Stealth Hunter]

You can pretty much tell that if they lose the primary elections fair and square, they wouldn't make that much of a good president.

[Stealth Hunter]

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

In all honestly, the Republicans are the last thing the citizens of the United States want in office.

Really? Why? I always do so enjoy foreigners telling me what i should or shouldn't want.

Seriously did you ever think that a Democrat controlled White House AND Congress is as bad as a Republican controlled WH and Congress? At least when the two branches are controlled by opposite parties neither is able to pass partisan agenda at will. This is a good thing. If Obama wins in November and control of congress doesn't change hands that will end up costing us a lot of money given the wealth distribution schemes already being touted by Pelosi and company.


Another thing, there's a lot of people on this board (not just you) claiming that the next president is going to be assasinated, something that hasn't happened in nearly half a century. Is that wishful thinking, or do you have an actual reason to believe this?

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

You can pretty much tell that if they lose the primary elections fair and square, they wouldn't make that much of a good president.

Oof, hardly. Most of the best people for the job wouldn't put up with the blatant pandering and piss-artistry necessary to get there.

[Stealth Hunter]

If they wanted to make drastic change for the good of the country like they've claimed so many times, they would.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

no sympathy here. Hillary is a seasoned politician. She knew that this was a straight Delegate race. She ran a dreadful campaign, failed to caucus and totally underestimated Obama.

Only when she started losing did she start talking about the popular vote...something politicians do when they are losing by the specified criteria of the campaign they are running.

True. After watching the latest video of a pastor in Obama's former church, I some how believe he was correct when he believed Hillary thought this was in the bag oh so many months ago. Look at the poll we held, Hillary was at the top. Even so, the people voted in the majority for Hillary. This was the popular vote. Let me play the devils advocate here, Hillary was looking to get the peoples vote as this is a democracy and "every vote counts". In the race, none of them counted IMO. The decision was made by the super delegates. I strongly believe Hillary's past shananigans along with Bills swayed the delegates support to Obama.

[TDK1044]

As always, you make a valid point, AVG, but if the Democrats really wanted "democracy", then all they needed to do was scrap the delegates and the super delegates and say whoever gets the most votes accross the Country wins. Simple.

The reality is that we elect our President by Electoral College and the Democrats elect a Presidential nominee by delegate count. In both cases, the popular vote is interesting but not really relevant.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by August

Really? Why? I always do so enjoy foreigners telling me what i should or shouldn't want.

I'm a legalized American citizen who has been living here for a good 20 years.

Originally Posted by August

Seriously did you ever think that a Democrat controlled White House AND Congress is as bad as a Republican controlled WH and Congress? At least when the two branches are controlled by opposite parties neither is able to pass partisan agenda at will.

A Republican-controlled White House in conjunction with a Democrat-controlled Congress is going to do nothing more than hold the country in a legislative stalemate. Nothing is going to be accomplished to clean us up from the mess Bush has gotten us in, and we're going to continue to spin down in a stall. With a Democratic White House and Congress, at least we'd be able to get something done, despite the sacrifices we'd have to make.

Originally Posted by August

Another thing, there's a lot of people on this board (not just you) claiming that the next president is going to be assasinated, something that hasn't happened in nearly half a century. Is that wishful thinking, or do you have an actual reason to believe this?

Something that hasn't happened in quite a long time? Yes. Something that isn't going to happen again? Definitely not. If Obama wins, I fear someone will try to assassinate him due to racist and intolerant feelings. If McCain wins, I think someone will try to assassinate him since a Republican president isn't in the interests of the American citizens.

Attempts to kill presidents have been made many times before. Bush was almost slain on May 10, 2005 whilst delivering a speech (you might recall the hand grenade incident?). The only thing that stopped it from successfully working was the fact that the grenade didn't detonate properly. Bill Clinton was shot at by a Mr. Duran with a semi-automatic rifle. Bush Sr. was almost blown to bits by a bomb.

Since John F. Kennedy's killing, every president since that time has had at least one assassination attempt made on them (save for LBJ). It's only a matter of time before one succeeds.

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

I'm a legalized American citizen who has been living here for a good 20 years.

My apologies. The way you're always talking about leaving led me to believe you weren't.

A Republican-controlled White House in conjunction with a Democrat-controlled Congress is going to do nothing more than hold the country in a legislative stalemate. Nothing is going to be accomplished to clean us up from the mess Bush has gotten us in, and we're going to continue to spin down in a stall. With a Democratic White House and Congress, at least we'd be able to get something done, despite the sacrifices we'd have to make.

Get something done, like what exactly? What exactly are the Democrats going to do that will "fix" the countries problems? The only real difference between the Dems and the Repubs is which half of your rights are going to be assaulted. I'd much rather have them at each others legisltative throats only passing laws that they both can abide with than either socialism or capitalism run unchecked.

If Obama wins, I fear someone will try to assassinate him due to racist and intolerant feelings. If McCain wins, I think someone will try to assassinate him since a Republican president isn't in the interests of the American citizens.

There is a vast difference between attempting and succeeding. I also love your attempt at moralizing such a heinous act. Obama might be assasinated by some evil racist hater but a McCain assassin is only a patriot looking out for the interests of his fellow citizens? Careful, your bias is showing...

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

As always, you make a valid point, AVG, but if the Democrats really wanted "democracy", then all they needed to do was scrap the delegates and the super delegates and say whoever gets the most votes accross the Country wins. Simple.

The reality is that we elect our President by Electoral College and the Democrats elect a Presidential nominee by delegate count. In both cases, the popular vote is interesting but not really relevant.

Perhaps then there is a change in order. As of late, I do not believe my vote counts for much of nothing other then time wasted going to the polls. I do not feel this is representative of what the people want nor democratic.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Perhaps then there is a change in order. As of late, I do not believe my vote counts for much of nothing other then time wasted going to the polls. I do not feel this is representative of what the people want nor democratic.

If you research the 'right to vote' issue in depth, you'll discover as I did that there is actually no right to vote in a Federal Election.

The decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of George W. Bush, et al., Petitioners v. Albert Gore, Jr., et al makes interesting reading. Take a look at Section II, Paragraph B. "The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College. U.S. Const., Art.II, §1."

As a matter of law, there is no "right to vote" explicitly stated in the U.S. Constitution, but only that they cannot be denied based solely on specified qualifications.

15th Amendment (1870): no law may restrict any race from voting
19th Amendment (1920): no law may restrict any sex from voting
23rd Amendment (1961): residents of the District of Columbia can vote for the President and Vice-President
24th Amendment (1964): neither Congress nor the states may condition the right to vote in federal elections on payment of a poll tax or other type of tax
26th Amendment (1971): no law may restrict those 18 years of age or older from voting because of their age.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Or somebody will kill him...

I find comments like this and other such comments on other boards to be deeply disturbing.

If you were trying to be funny and flippant I don't think you succeeded I find nothing funny or flippant about the assassination of one of our politicians.

If you were being serious, then shame on you. The United States is not proud of our history of assassinations. We have had and still have nut cases who attempt to use violence to remove an elected member of our government. We should be thankful that we have such a good Secret Service and we are lucky that for the most part none of our citizens considers this violent act.

One of the many things that makes America a great democracy is that while we may passionately disagree on politics, the assassination of our politicians remains a rare occurrence.

I will gladly accept the title of SUBSIM party pooper, but I do not think posting anything "predicting" the assassination of any American politician is anything to joke about.

Other joking is great. Joke about how old McCain is, or make fun at the way he speaks. There are tons of stuff to joke about all the nominees. Humour is great.

I just don't think joking about a nominee being assassinated is appropriate.

[JHuschke]

McCain has to win, Hillary Clinton will have us into war in no time and if we have Obama we will have a "Black Supremacist" dictating America.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by G00BER

McCain has to win, Hillary Clinton will have us into war in no time and if we have Obama we will have a "Black Supremacist" dictating America.

What war would Hillary get us into? She said she "loaths" the military. I wonder if she has changed her opinion on the subject?