Looks like we need to keep our camps in Guantanamo Bay open indefinitely

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Pretty much. Our laws don't apply to the Philippines (another US territory) either for example, so if you lived there, you get all the benefits from the USA, but you don't even have to pay taxes. Maybe I should move!

-S

I thought the Phillipines are an independant republic, did the US re-take control over them while I was away at work?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

I thought the Phillipines are an independant republic, did the US re-take control over them while I was away at work?

You may be right. Let me look it up. I know anyone that lives there can come here without restriction, etc.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Oops - its Puerto Rico that I am mixing it up with.

Current US territories:

American Samoa, Midway Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands.

Regardless, if you live in any of these, no US laws apply, but you get all US benefits short of voting. You also don't have to pay any taxes.

-S

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You may be right. Let me look it up. I know anyone that lives there can come here without restriction, etc.

-S

IIRC there is a similar status for Irish nationals here in the UK and I think some commonwealth countries too .

[Tchocky]

Hmph. Guantanamo. We can't release these dangerous freedom-haters, we know they're horrible people. The worst of the worst.
Prove it.
Ah. We can't try them. No US laws apply here. Sorry

How unfortunate that you decided to fly them to Guantanamo. How very unfortunate.

I'm sure that whatever happens will be fair and balanced.

The testimony from Davis marked the transformation of an outspoken defender of Guantanamo — he once compared putting detainees on trial to dragging "Dracula out into the sunlight" — into a persistent critic.
He alleged, among other things, that Haynes appeared shocked when Davis suggested in a 2005 meeting that acquittals, however disappointing, could boost the credibility of the system.
"He looked at me and said 'We can't have acquittals, we've been holding these guys for years,'" Davis testified.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...R36dgD90B80D82

Screw it, I can't say anything that hasn't been said. A bloody stain on the conscience of the US.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

...Screw it, I can't say anything that hasn't been said. A bloody stain on the conscience of the US.

Only when we release them.

-S

[Tchocky]

Yeah, that's why everyone else stands with the US on this issue.

Right.

[iambecomelife]

What's that noise? I think it's the world's smallest violin playing for Mr. Ajmi.

"bloody stain on our conscience!":rotfl:

I'm glad the rest of the world ISN'T on our side. Why should I care about the "rest of the world?" The same "rest of the world" that said the US deserved 9/11 even before the smoke had cleared?

If I've learned anything in recent times it's to make sure to do the OPPOSITE of what the "Ruins of Europe" tell us to. They talk about what a horrible country the US is, and then they expect us to follow their advice when dealing with terrorists? It makes no sense. You don't seek advice from those who wish you ill.

Later, people. The "stain on my conscience" is just too much to bear.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

What's that noise? I think it's the world's smallest violin playing for Mr. Ajmi.

Who the heck is Mr Ajmi?

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

Who the heck is Mr Ajmi?

The subject of the original article. He blew himself up, murdering 7 people.

[Tchocky]

I'm glad the rest of the world ISN'T on our side. Why should I care about the "rest of the world?" The same "rest of the world" that said the US deserved 9/11 even before the smoke had cleared?

Do you even remember the response to 9/11? The front page of Le Monde proclaimed "We are all Americans now".
So in answer to your question, no. Not that "rest of the world". The one that, by and large, supported the US when it had been greviously wounded.

If I've learned anything in recent times it's to make sure to do the OPPOSITE of what the "Ruins of Europe" tell us to. They talk about what a horrible country the US is, and then they expect us to follow their advice when dealing with terrorists? It makes no sense. You don't seek advice from those who wish you ill.

See my above comment on international attitudes.
Dealing with terrorists? Some of those in Cuba were bought by US forces in Afghanistan, no proof necessary, cold hard cash is the impetus. This strategy, combined with what have routinely been described as kangaroo courst, don't imbue the official statements of "terrorists" with much credibility. Certainly some are, but there are many victims of circumstance.

EDIT - If I was talking about how horrible the US is, I wouldn't have described Guantanamo as a stain. I thought that was obvious.

Later, people. The "stain on my conscience" is just too much to bear.

A simple exercise of empathy would make this seem a lot less light-hearted.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Dealing with terrorists? Some of those in Cuba were bought by US forces in Afghanistan, no proof necessary, cold hard cash is the impetus. This strategy, combined with what have routinely been described as kangaroo courst, don't imbue the official statements of "terrorists" with much credibility. Certainly some are, but there are many victims of circumstance.

By "victims of circumstance", are you referring to Hamdan? The man was a willing bodyguard and fighter for someone whose organization's goal was to kill American civillians.

PD

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

What's that noise?

I'm glad the rest of the world ISN'T on our side. Why should I care about the "rest of the world?" The same "rest of the world" that said the US deserved 9/11 even before the smoke had cleared?

You have already heard that there are other nations involved in the war in Afghanistan as well?

By the way it was the German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder (no, my nick has nothing to do with him) who called this not an attack on the US alone but an attack on NATO (why would he do that if we all hate you?). The attack was a shock for Europe too!

If I've learned anything in recent times it's to make sure to do the OPPOSITE of what the "Ruins of Europe" tell us to. They talk about what a horrible country the US is, and then they expect us to follow their advice when dealing with terrorists? It makes no sense. You don't seek advice from those who wish you ill.

Who is wishing you ill?
Are we wishing you ill because we didn't go to Iraq?
Iraq was an illegal private crusade of your president. I'm glad we didn't participate. We even warned you of the mess this would become. Is it now our fault that you didn't listen to our advises?

Guantanamo has lowered the reputation of the US dramatically. A country that claims to fight for human rights, liberty and to be the "good one" should be better than denying prisoners basic rights like being tried, having lawyers etc. That's the behaviour that dictatorships show to people they want to have out of the way.
I don't like those extremists either and if they are guilty of murder or attempted murder then let them rot there for the rest of their lifes. But as long as they are not even allowed to defend themselves properly you are acting like the countrys you count to the "evil" ones.

[Gorduz]

Have any of you seen this movie? http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=82 . Its quite disturbing. After being held prisoner for several years without any evidence I to would be pissed, hell picture that my wife had left me in the meantime, sold the house and I've lost my job. I just just might consider doing a bomrun.

[Skybird]

the nice-talking of torture by calling the same procedure something different, in the end was a shot going to the wroing direction by 180°. Because what now is called enhanced interrogation, equals the german term "verschärftes Verhör".

Which is an old Gestapo term.

And guantanamo, a camp of arbitrary arrest, and without legal basis, and without any supervision by jurisdiction of another organ of national society, where guilt must not be proven for the fact of being there is enough to prove your guilt, is not any different from the old Gestapo dungeons.

In the beginning, people did not believe when looking at Germany. And when the first rumours appeared, nations looked away.

As long as Guantanamo is what it is, and as long as torture is called enhanced interrogation, and as long as a reasonable legal basis for imprisonment is not taken care of, I will compare it to the Gestapo, alwqays. simply believing what a spokesman says, is not enough in a democratic civil society. you want chcks and balances. And if you will to skip these in favour of driving such institutions because you consider them to be inline with your own demands and intentions, you are not any better than people working in and accepting the existence of the Gestapo.

I hope some concerned minds here feel offended. But fact is - you offend yourself, and the noble intentions and ideas America once, long ago, was founded on.