I just had a go with the Walter boat

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by pythos

Remember, the PBYs could not hear under water, they were in the air. They could not see down more than 100 meters, if that. The Walter boat would have dissapeared for the airborne scout.

But the sub has to come to periscope depth to shoot, and there were more and more blimps helping with the escort, not to mention the hunter-killer groups' fighters. Yes, if they could have had all that wonderful technology up-and-running in 1939 they would have made a huge difference.

But they couldn't.

[gimpy117]

The speed of the german boats were impressive, but somthing tells me that they couldn't hold that for long.

basically, I don't think the boats were much more stealthy than a VIIC or IX, so sure, you could have a better shot at gettign away at 20knts in the electro boat, but eventually you will be found and you better hope your quiet.

[Frame57]

The "Walther boat" used in the game is really a type XXI, that somehow had the Walter turbine. But the XXI boats without the H2O2 turbines could acheive 17 knts submerged, which is pretty good. It was propelled by 2 SSW 2500 bhp electric motors when submerged that coupled with it's streamlined hull made these speeds available.
It was the Wa201 type XVII that was deemed the true "Walter boat" in reference to Dr. Helmuth Walter. The H202 was broken down using a catalyst to provide steam and oxygen, them mixed with water and diesel fuel to produce combustion. The system worked superbly and was not a time bomb at all. One was even used by the Royal navy after the war and it was renamed the HMS Meteorite.

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by Frame57

The "Walther boat" used in the game is really a type XXI, that somehow had the Walter turbine.

The two boats have extremely similar hulls, so they look like twins. The one in SH4 is however supposed to be a type XVIII. As you know it was actually never completed, but its hull design was put into service as the XXI.

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Fincuan

The two boats have extremely similar hulls, so they look like twins. The one in SH4 is however supposed to be a type XVIII. As you know it was actually never completed, but its hull design was put into service as the XXI.

I respectfully disagree a total of 62 type XXIII were completed and ebtered the war before it ended. It the 23 boat had a length of 34.7m a beam of 3m with a crew of 14. The XXI boat was twice the size with a crew of 57. My info comes from Horst Bredow founder of the U boat archive in Cuxhaven-Altenbruch. The info is dead accurate

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by Frame57

a total of 62 type XXIII were completed:

Your info is correct, but I was talking about the XVIII(18), not the XXIII(23).

[Hitman]

The "Walther boat" used in the game is really a type XXI, that somehow had the Walter turbine

Well that's exactly what a Type XVIII was A XXI with a walter turbine

The system worked superbly and was not a time bomb at all. One was even used by the Royal navy after the war and it was renamed the HMS Meteorite.

IIRC the Royal Navy dropped that design and research line precisely because of the dangers involved :hmm: I think even some explosions were registered while doing tests with the design

[Hartmann]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

The speed of the german boats were impressive, but somthing tells me that they couldn't hold that for long.

basically, I don't think the boats were much more stealthy than a VIIC or IX, so sure, you could have a better shot at gettign away at 20knts in the electro boat, but eventually you will be found and you better hope your quiet.

In real life the XXI boat had a silent running speed of 6-7 knts, a big difference compared with the VII or IX-C :hmm:

[pythos]

The type XXI was the stopgap design based off of the failing type XVIII boat. Both were Walter designed. The type XXI's stearn and rudder were quite different from the proposed type XVIII.

Both designs had the figure eight hull cross section. On the type XVIII it was proposed for much of the lower section of the hull was to be tanks to hold the h2o2 to power the Walter turbine. The XXI utilized these tank areas for batteries, and a whole hell of a lot of batteries. The diesles of the type XXI were not directly connected to the propeller shafts and instead turned generators which charged the batteries, which in turn powered the drive motors for surface propulsion. Very similar to the American designs except faster underwater.

The type XXIII was a replacement for the type II, and was also a Walter design with the figure 8 hull. But was never equipped with the turbine. It was just about the same length, but smaller on the inside, faster underwater, but not as fast as the XXI, and definitely not as deep diving. It was also armed less than the type II. (two torpedoes, compared to five of the type II)

The type XVIII was in fact produced, but the hulls that were to be the type XVIII were redesignated for the NEWER, type XXI design. So no true examples of the type XVIII ever met the water. (thank god, for the crews of these explosive boats, and the crews of the convoys that would have been decimated by them)

[AntEater]

History and other things aside, the RN took up the Walther propulsion after the war with the Explorer class. The submarines were named "Exploder" class because of numerous explosions. Also known as the "blonde" class because in the 1950s h2o2 was mainly used to bleach the hair of Marilyn and the likes.
Actually, according to Wikipedia, the unarmed Explorer class was not thought as a proof of concept, but rather as a "disproof of concept"! The two subs were comissioned to prove they were NOT useful! Imagine serving on a sub build to fail....
Also these were supposed to simulate ASW targets, as many assumed the USSR would start mass producing Walter subs. The USSR AFAIK did never take up Walter engines for submarine propulsion, only for torpedoes. They did build the Quebec class submarines, but these used a closed cycle diesel, not a Walter turbine.
I don't know how the RN did it, but in german service, the H2o2 was to be stored in rubber bladders suspended in the lower part of the vessel. This installation does not sound like it could stand a lot of depth charges.

[Defiance]

Thing is guys, The British had bust the german coding, even when another wheel was added to the machine

Generally whitehall knew orders etc before the u-boat captains

This was kept from the americans for sometime for one reason or another, several convoys were sacrificed to keep the secret safe (sad but in general you can see the point)

So i'd guess the new sub/s would of been hunted down just like the older boats

Thus maybe not having a massive impact as maybe thought

My 2c worth

[Raptor1]

How...how old is this thread?

Anyway, the XVIIIs and the XXIs would probably not have changed the outcome of the Second Battle of the Atlantic, but they could very well have brought on a Third Happy Time because nearly every single standard Convoy escort vessel (DEs, Frigates and Corvettes) could not catch up with them