Some interesting things from SH4...

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

I also think thats true. Why dont you do a fix for that together with the waterspill mod? Its pretty easy to fix that, in the uboat.sim files, draught surfaced. Although I was some time ago playing around with that and noticed that the more increase in draught, the more speed you lose. And if you lift whe uboat out of water, lets say, only 1,5 meters into water, you gain a lot of speed. So by doing that you might mess around with a lot of other unwanted stuff.

I played with this yesterday too. Using GWX uboat files I noticed that the best result was with draught=0 (at least for the type IXd2). With this setting Sh3 reads the draught from the 3D object itself. And, yes it losses speed and also range. So if we play with this will be necessary to play with the fuel and speed definitions . Isn't a bi problem but needs research again (I don't recall exactly what is the correct velocity for each uboat, range , etc)

[CB..]

might it be possible to reduce the surfaced drag coeffecient to match the normal surfaced speed range stats?..i seem to remember there being an entry for surfaced drag somewhere?:hmm:
come to think of it if there is then this should help with the AI uboat speed problem. when attached to a convoy?

could this also be used to set the boat to decks awash ?

[von hally]

never even thought of that!!!!!

this just keeps getting better and better
hope its possible and not too tricky for you mate
good luck

[Jimbuna]

Very promising Rubini.....very promising

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Rubini

Seems that the water "leak" from the lateral vents from all the uboat body. (Interesting is also how, in the RL pics, the uboats are much more "into the water" than we have on Sh3/GWX. This is another thing that annoys me.)

I will try to adjust all the water stream to start from the lateral vents...anyway in the end the final effect will be more or less how we have it now on Sh4, with some tweaks here and there.

One thing to remember (and this applies to all WW2-era submarines) is that the outer hull is designed to cut through the water on the surface, and is independent of the inner, or 'pressure' hull. The outer hull is open to the sea, and the vent holes are all just that--holes. Water will fill the space between the inner and outer hulls, and went the boat rises the water will 'stream' from every hole that has been underwater.

Also, if you're going to play with the different parameters to change draft/speed/range, might you also look into acceleration? It has long been a problem that all ships in the game, including u-boats, accelerate far too quickly.

[Gairith]

"Take us home chief, we should make it back to port in time for this upgrade."

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

One thing to remember (and this applies to all WW2-era submarines) is that the outer hull is designed to cut through the water on the surface, and is independent of the inner, or 'pressure' hull. The outer hull is open to the sea, and the vent holes are all just that--holes. Water will fill the space between the inner and outer hulls, and went the boat rises the water will 'stream' from every hole that has been underwater.

Also, if you're going to play with the different parameters to change draft/speed/range, might you also look into acceleration? It has long been a problem that all ships in the game, including u-boats, accelerate far too quickly.

Sailor Steve, yes, I have now 43!! water stream to play with and it's possible to add infinite numbers of them. So each singular hole can have it's own water strain in each uboat!. i guess that in the end this will be to much because the effect in game isn't exactly as in RL (mechanical/texture limitations) so i will play just with some of them (perhaps ten per side as an example) what is already enough as an very good eye candy effect. My last look at them in my dinner hour reveal a lot of possibilities. I'm just annoying that i need to go in a family trip by the holiday without my PC! OMG!

Now a reply also for CB..:
The best settings until now for the IXd2 as really draught=0 and go back to neutral buoyance (GWX introduced a positive buoyance what makes that "too above water" problem yet worst). The ubaot sail effect is much, much better and necessary to have water stream. And is always possible (in the.sim itself) to adjust the potency of the engines what I think will solve the too much quickly acceleration.

I will look at the surfaced drag , but i guess that it's for left-right/ up-down (just shake movements for first) and then it will not solve the final velocity problem adequately.:hmm:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Rubini

Sailor Steve, yes, I have now 43!! water stream to play with and it's possible to add infinite numbers of them. So each singular hole can have it's own water strain in each uboat!. i guess that in the end this will be to much because the effect in game isn't exactly as in RL (mechanical/texture limitations) so i will play just with some of them (perhaps ten per side as an example) what is already enough as an very good eye candy effect. My last look at them in my dinner hour reveal a lot of possibilities. I'm just annoying that i need to go in a family trip by the holiday without my PC! OMG!

Now a reply also for CB..:
The best settings until now for the IXd2 as really draught=0 and go back to neutral buoyance (GWX introduced a positive buoyance what makes that "too above water" problem yet worst). The ubaot sail effect is much, much better and necessary to have water stream. And is always possible (in the.sim itself) to adjust the potency of the engines what I think will solve the too much quickly acceleration.

I will look at the surfaced drag , but i guess that it's for left-right/ up-down (just shake movements for first) and then it will not solve the final velocity problem adequately.:hmm:

The acceleration is the easiest thing to edit in the game, and the better part is that it doesnt change the final speed. I think the acceleration underwater is a little less unreal then the surfaced acceleration, but still both of them need adjustments. Those adjustments I've done for myself long time ago, but I see no point in making a mod out of it, nobody will use it.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

The acceleration is the easiest thing to edit in the game, and the better part is that it doesnt change the final speed. I think the acceleration underwater is a little less unreal then the surfaced acceleration, but still both of them need adjustments. Those adjustments I've done for myself long time ago, but I see no point in making a mod out of it, nobody will use it.

If these water stream really becomes very good i will then try to make others adjusts on the uboats, like draught, acceleration and also will add a self adjusted exaust mod (from RB). Then we will have a really good final uboat mod.

[bert8for3]

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

... The acceleration is the easiest thing to edit in the game, and the better part is that it doesnt change the final speed. I think the acceleration underwater is a little less unreal then the surfaced acceleration, but still both of them need adjustments. Those adjustments I've done for myself long time ago, but I see no point in making a mod out of it, nobody will use it.

[puts hand up] I would. Anything that goes to more/better realism. I've got neck whiplash from kicking my Type VII from 0-18 knots in 2 seconds flat.

[Gairith]

Originally Posted by bert8for3

[puts hand up] I would. Anything that goes to more/better realism. I've got neck whiplash from kicking my Type VII from 0-18 knots in 2 seconds flat.

Same here, would be willing to try it out.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Gairith

Same here, would be willing to try it out.

I didn't get back in time to be first, so I'll be third: Yes, I would definitely use it. I hate seeing the parked merchant in the Academy avoid a torpedo by accelerating away from it. Destroyers have better acceleration than anything except PT boats, but even they can't really stop and reverse in less than their own length.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Rubini

The best settings until now for the IXd2 as really draught=0 and go back to neutral buoyance (GWX introduced a positive buoyance what makes that "too above water" problem yet worst). The ubaot sail effect is much, much better and necessary to have water stream. And is always possible (in the.sim itself) to adjust the potency of the engines what I think will solve the too much quickly acceleration.

Rubini, the positive bouyancy from GWX 1.0 has been drastically reduced (by you mate) before the release of 2.0, and has nothing to do with the U-boat drafts when surfaced.

I've fixed it (The IXD2 draft) by simply pushing it down by one meter... and now the water line is correct/uniform with the rest of the U-boats in GWX. (I just hadn't noticed the IXD2 riding a little high until now... God only knows why.)

Returning to "true" neutral bouyancy as in stock SH3, will cause the U-boats to plow through the water like bricks again... with little or no interaction with hydrodynamic forces present on the surface. U-boats shouldn't behave like battleships on the surface, especially considering that they spend a majority of the time on the surface.

With the exception of the XXI, I've checked all player boat drafts.
Screenshots from last night's range testing I took while thinking about this thread: http://www.mediafire.com/?lw2wbpmdkej

Regarding drag settings, and engine power settings... changes to either will cause U-boat ranges to need complete overhaul/rework. Lengthy testing and proximity to release makes it prohibitive for us. Each would have to be adjusted individually... the same is true for all surface vessels in SH3.

Sailor Steve is right about the units in SH3 being able to accelerate/slow too quickly... but he's also talking about buckets of work. (Get to it Steve!)

EDIT: Changes to draft settings of player U-boats would also cause range settings to need reworking.

Plugging real life values into the .sim file for range vs knots is useless. It must be adjusted, then tested in game... then re-adjusted as necessary until correct in-game.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Rubini, the positive bouyancy from GWX 1.0 has been drastically reduced (by you mate) before the release of 2.0, and has nothing to do with the U-boat drafts when surfaced.

I've fixed it (The IXD2 draft) by simply pushing it down by one meter... and now the water line is correct/uniform with the rest of the U-boats in GWX. (I just hadn't noticed the IXD2 riding a little high until now... God only knows why.)

Returning to "true" neutral bouyancy as in stock SH3, will cause the U-boats to plow through the water like bricks again... with little or no interaction with hydrodynamic forces present on the surface. U-boats shouldn't behave like battleships on the surface, especially considering that they spend a majority of the time on the surface.

With the exception of the XXI, I've checked all player boat drafts.
Screenshots from last night's range testing I took while thinking about this thread: http://www.mediafire.com/?lw2wbpmdkej

Regarding drag settings, and engine power settings... changes to either will cause U-boat ranges to need complete overhaul/rework. Lengthy testing and proximity to release makes it prohibitive for us. Each would have to be adjusted individually... the same is true for all surface vessels in SH3.

Sailor Steve is right about the units in SH3 being able to accelerate/slow too quickly... but he's also talking about buckets of work. (Get to it Steve!)

EDIT: Changes to draft settings of player U-boats would also cause range settings to need reworking.

Plugging real life values into the .sim file for range vs knots is useless. It must be adjusted, then tested in game... then re-adjusted as necessary until correct in-game.

Hi Kpt,
I just returned from my holiday and I´m replying the posts slowing. (sorry for my english these days because I lost my Babylon licence, then I´m writing in the best way that I can). First of all, I just don´t presented this mod for GWX team at first because i just entered in it after we reach our time limit on GWX 2.1. About the uboat behaviour while surfaced...hummm...at least for my type IXd2 (GWX 1.03 yet) it really becomes better (in behaviour) after i replace again the neutral buoyance. I know that in GWX 2.1 we are touching the uboats fuel/distance/speed again...so it´s in my plains to contact you before mess with anything on this matter to I really have the best information possible before modify anything on this issue. And you are right, to really mess with acceleration for all units in the game...WOW...this needs to be a mod team effort at first. And to finish, saying again, wat i said at first is just my impressions using GWX 1.03 Type IXd2. Let´s see the final results in the next days.

PS: i´m downloading the link above. Comments later!

[Rubini]

Me again!

KL,

After saw yours pics in the link above, my first comment is that for calm seas I never saw problems too. In my posts i refer only to water line/behaviour when you are sailing with bad weather, winds more than 9m/s. Sometimes the uboats on stock sh3 (GWX and others mods included) seems that to be "flying". This is the behaviour that i don´t like and is is to much different from RL IMHO.

Sorry to not make this clear: the main problem isn´t with the water line on calm seas, but the sail behaviour on winds >9m/s. The uboat sometimes seems to be flying. In RL they are much more "into" the water all the time.