Who had the best submarines in wwII?

[V.C. Sniper]

U.S. has the best submarines no doubt about it . The Gato/Balao class would dominate both oceans without a sweat. Highly superior technological advances in radar and electronics combined with outstanding performance: 20+ knots on surface, 8.75-9 knots submerge, large amount of torpedoes, super deep diving capabilities of the awesome Balaos, and a 30-35 second crash dive time (super fast for such large subs =D) would OWNZ all other subs of the era. =D

Plus, young and aggressive skippers like Mush Morton and Samuel D. Dealey (aka "The Destroyer Killer"), would turn the RN's sub hunters into the hunted.

[Torplexed]

The problem is the British know how that highly superior radar technology works. They invented it. They knew how to detect and exploit it. The Japanese didn't have radar for most of the war. Speed was only an advantage on the surface when the enemy wasn't tracking your every move on their radar. German boats dived far deeper than American subs and still the British hounded them mercilessly.

Plus, the Japanese didn't have hedgehogs. Those things are nasty.

[V.C. Sniper]

"German boats dived far deeper than American subs" :rotfl: I don't think any Type VIICs would be able to survive a 1,011 feet depth excursion such that the USS Chopper (Balao class) had when she lost power in a training execise.

[Freiwillige]

Originally Posted by V.C. Sniper

"German boats dived far deeper than American subs" :rotfl: I don't think any Type VIICs would be able to survive a 1,011 feet depth excursion such that the USS Chopper (Balao class) had when she lost power in a training execise.

1,011 feet is 308.1528 meters. There are a few U-boats that have been that deep and lived to tell about it.
The desighne depth of the type XXI is 300 meters.

[yamato9]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

1,011 feet is 308.1528 meters. There are a few U-boats that have been that deep and lived to tell about it.
The desighne depth of the type XXI is 300 meters.

Good point Freiwillige.

Here is example:
Partial quote of Jimbuna´s topic posted before some time.

Returning to the scene where Harvester had sunk, Aconit unexpectedly got a good sonar contact. This was Harvester's killer, U-432, still at periscope depth.
After sinking Harvester, Eckhardt had opened a bottle of champagne so the officers could celebrate, after which the officers and crew had begun to eat lunch or to sleep. When the first two salvos (ten depth charges) from Aconit fell, U-432 was deaf and blind. The hydrophone operator was washing the champagne glasses: the first watch officer had gone to bed. The close explosions caused extensive damage and drove U-432 to a record one thousand feet.

The depth to which U-432 plunged so terrified all hands that Eckhardt decided to surface in broad daylight and attempt to outrun his attacker. When U-432 popped up, Aconit was merely a half mile away. The French spotted the U-boat and instantly opened fire with the 4" gun and other weapons.

NOTE THAT THIS UBOAT WAS ALSO BADLY DAMAGED AND SHE STILL ENDURED PRESSURE AT 1000 FEET

Link: http://207.44.214.111/subsim.com/rad...d.php?t=128787

I think that german subs haved greater survivabilty, and US subs haved superior firepower. Against UK hunter-killers German u-boat´s got definetly better chance due their deeper dive capability, noticable smaller hull design(small sonar profile) and obviously better manouverability.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by V.C. Sniper

U.S. has the best submarines no doubt about it. The Gato/Balao class would dominate both oceans without a sweat.

:rotfl: As much as i love fleet submarines, even i woudlnt make that boast! If one *REALLY* wanted to know how well a fleet boat would do in the atlantic, all one has to do, is look at how well the 9D2's faired. Which, really is the only fair comparision, as they're both very similar in size and endurance. The upperhand in THAT matchup however, i think goes to the fleet boat. No externally stored torpedos, better electronics, better propulsion system, and better (higher) field of view for lookouts. edit: Oh yeah, and faster dive time. A fleetboat in wartime was required to dive in under 40 seconds. 30-35 second dive being the goal in training.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by V.C. Sniper

Plus, young and aggressive skippers like Mush Morton and Samuel D. Dealey (aka "The Destroyer Killer"), would turn the RN's sub hunters into the hunted.

Umm...they were both caught and killed by the "inferior" Japanese destroyers. Maybe more real discussion and less boasting...

[yamato9]

Here is clearly visible who got beter chance.
Note that this data is taken from Wikipedia and so this reflects standard worlds opinion about US & Jerry´s WW2 submarine capability.

LOOK ON TEST DEPTHS AND DISPLACMENT, so what you think who is the sub of the day in strugle against UK destroyers?


Balao class
Displacement: 1,525 tons (1,549 t) surfaced
2,424 tons (2463 t) submerged
Speed: 20.25 knots (38 km/h) surfaced
8.75 knots (16 km/h) submerged
Range: 11,000 nautical miles (20,000 km) surfaced at 10 knots (19 km/h)
Endurance: 48 hours at 2 knots (3.7 km/h) submerged
75 days on patrol
Test depth: 400 ft (120 m)
Complement: 10 officers, 70–71 enlisted[3]
Armament: 10 × 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes
(six forward, four aft)
24 torpedoes

1 × 5-inch (127 mm) / 25 caliber deck gun
four machine guns

Type 7c
Displacement: Surfaced 769 tons,
submerged 871 tons
Speed: Surfaced 17.7 knot (33 km/h),
submerged 7.6 knot

Test depth: 230 m (754 ft). Calculated crush depth: 250-295 m (820-967 ft)
Range: Surfaced 15170 km (8200 miles) at 10 knots (19 km/h),
submerged 150 km (80 miles) at 4 knots (7 km/h)
Complement: 44-52 officers & ratings
Armament: 5 53.3cm Torpedo tubes: 4 bow, 1 stern (14 torpedoes or 26 TMA or 39 TMB mines))
1 C35 88mm gun/L45 deck gun with 220 rounds
Various FLAK weaponry

All doubts stops here.

[msalama]

Who has the best submarine of WWII? Well I do of course. It's only a IIA and I've only died thrice

[V.C. Sniper]

Originally Posted by yamato9

Here is clearly visible who got beter chance.
Note that this data is taken from Wikipedia and so this reflects standard worlds opinion about US & Jerry´s WW2 submarine capability.

LOOK ON TEST DEPTHS AND DISPLACMENT, so what you think who is the sub of the day in strugle against UK destroyers?


Balao class
Displacement: 1,525 tons (1,549 t) surfaced
2,424 tons (2463 t) submerged
Speed: 20.25 knots (38 km/h) surfaced
8.75 knots (16 km/h) submerged
Range: 11,000 nautical miles (20,000 km) surfaced at 10 knots (19 km/h)
Endurance: 48 hours at 2 knots (3.7 km/h) submerged
75 days on patrol
Test depth: 400 ft (120 m)
Complement: 10 officers, 70–71 enlisted[3]
Armament: 10 × 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes
(six forward, four aft)
24 torpedoes

1 × 5-inch (127 mm) / 25 caliber deck gun
four machine guns

Type 7c
Displacement: Surfaced 769 tons,
submerged 871 tons
Speed: Surfaced 17.7 knot (33 km/h),
submerged 7.6 knot

Test depth: 230 m (754 ft). Calculated crush depth: 250-295 m (820-967 ft)
Range: Surfaced 15170 km (8200 miles) at 10 knots (19 km/h),
submerged 150 km (80 miles) at 4 knots (7 km/h)
Complement: 44-52 officers & ratings
Armament: 5 53.3cm Torpedo tubes: 4 bow, 1 stern (14 torpedoes or 26 TMA or 39 TMB mines))
1 C35 88mm gun/L45 deck gun with 220 rounds
Various FLAK weaponry

All doubts stops here.

Survivability also depends on OFFENSE!!! You gotta punch em' in the nose! And that's where the mighty Gato/Balao cleary beats the uboats in, with 6 bow and 4 stern tubes, you got a lotta firepower to send at those destroyers before having to result to going deep.

And besides, no body knows how deep the Balao class are capable of going. They could go way beyond 1,000 feet and survive for all we know. =D

[Torplexed]

Survivability also depends on OFFENSE!!! You gotta punch em' in the nose! And that's where the mighty Gato/Balao cleary beats the uboats in, with 6 bow and 4 stern tubes, you got a lotta firepower to send at those destroyers before having to result to going deep.

And besides, no body knows how deep the Balao class are capable of going. They could go way beyond 1,000 feet and survive for all we know. =D

Problem is you gotta get in range to punch them. Unlike the Japanese who relied mainly upon visual lookouts they have radar too. And they can detect your radar emissions. Their sonar suites were excellent too. Working in groups they'd make your life short especially the with ahead throwing weapons. :p

Hey...I'm a proud American, but I wouldn't wanna go up against Johnny Walker and his deadly HKs.

[yamato9]

Survivability also depends on OFFENSE!!! You gotta punch em' in the nose! And that's where the mighty Gato/Balao cleary beats the uboats in, with 6 bow and 4 stern tubes, you got a lotta firepower to send at those destroyers before having to result to going deep.

And besides, no body knows how deep the Balao class are capable of going. They could go way beyond 1,000 feet and survive.

Well, yes its true...i always admire to WWII US subs in their brutality of firepower, but i still belive that Jeery´s u-boats ar more suitable subs for dealing with british killers. 5 TT is also quite enough for taking some destroyer(expecially if they loaded with acoustic torps) but at the end its showed that destroyers more or less get beter end in this types of duels.

If Balao (test depth 120) can go beyond 300 m the who knows how deep was cracking point of 7 0r 7c41 boats with theirs 230 m test depths.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by yamato9

If Balao (test depth 120) can go beyond 300 m the who knows how deep was cracking point of 7 0r 7c41 boats with theirs 230 m test depths.

Very true, but how deep is only one factor. As was stated earlier, US subs would have had a harder time against British (and US) ASW techniques, but there is no way a 7C could have conducted a war across the distances required in the Pacific war.

I sometimes joke about US boats being better because they had showers, laundry, refrigerators and ice cream, but morale is also a factor in the isolation of life inside a submarine. Which is the better boat depends much on the situation and type of warfare being conducted.

[Antiacus]

Type IID

In my mind, sneakiest = best.

[yamato9]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Very true, but how deep is only one factor. As was stated earlier, US subs would have had a harder time against British (and US) ASW techniques, but there is no way a 7C could have conducted a war across the distances required in the Pacific war.

I sometimes joke about US boats being better because they had showers, laundry, refrigerators and ice cream, but morale is also a factor in the isolation of life inside a submarine. Which is the better boat depends much on the situation and type of warfare being conducted.

Totaly agreed with you, both subs(US & German) was designed for different tasks and they performed best in ther field of use. Hardly is to imagine survival of US sub in high aircraft & destroyers traffic on atlantic or Med. and also vice versa german u boat who needs to cross over entire Pacific to pound some Japs.

My first post are based on hipotetical engagment of uboat vs british destroyer and then US sub vs brit. DD. OK this is my point of view... but i think that the VIIc/41 is more suitable for this, but this dont´t need to be also opinion of all others here in discussion.