Dear Joea - Americans over China pre WWII

[Sailor Steve]

Dealing strictly with the Sino-Japanese war: the Chinese bought planes from anywhere they could get them, including American companies. They also hired mercenary pilots from wherever they could, and many of those were also Americans.

The same is true of the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War. American companies sold planes to whomever they could, and pilots flew for whoever paid the most, or whomever they liked. Doesn't mean the government was involved, even indirectly.

Of course it doesn't mean they weren't, either.

terminated

have a good day

[joea]

I don't think you read a word of what I wrote, that article mentions Robert Stinnett who has been thoroughly debunked. I have an excellent article that debunks him if you want me to send it to you. For example, no one ever realises there was no way to be sure the US would end up at war with Germany if it was at war with Japan. The Tripartite Pact only took direct attacks against a member as a reason to go to war. Really I don't know how to argue with someone who thinks he found the real truth (as if any thinking person imagined governments are clean not the point) and is so short on facts.

[sonar732]

This situation goes with all accusations posted on a forum.

"Give me one theory, and I'll post 5 others that will debunk them."

Gotta love the internet and google.

terminated

terminated

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by Wave Skipper

SO you are telling me someone has debunked Naval documents obtained by the Freedom of Information Act?

you are saying the documents obtained were faked from the US government archives?

And yes - it would be certain that Japan would lead to Germany, since the two were allied and Germany was helping Japan with information and technology. FDR would know that it was only a matter of time. Hitler knew this and decided to cut things short since he knew what was going to happen anyway. Debunkers are not always correct. If the documents are real and can be obtained from government sources, then that's that. If we had Japanese transmissions from Nov 1941 about the attack coming to Hawaii, then forget books, they are just dressing around the meat. The meat is the naval documents. I don't need a book for that.

SO you are telling me someone has debunked Naval documents obtained by the Freedom of Information Act?

You have proof that this message was not found in government docs? "the task force, keeping its movements strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet in Hawaii and deal it a mortal blow…”

You mean like the guy who claimed the US Navy shot down TWA flight 800?

[joea]

Originally Posted by sonar732

This situation goes with all accusations posted on a forum.

"Give me one theory, and I'll post 5 others that will debunk them."

Gotta love the internet and google.

Except this is an academic article published in Intelligence and National Security called "Stinnett's Day of Deceit: Pearl Harbour Revisionism" by John C. Zimmerman that exposes the shoddy work done by some of these authors including Stinnett quited in WS article. One point is there is no evidence that the Kido Butai broke radio silence, on the contrary there is a lot to indicate they did guard it. About the November 25th message I'd want to see if that is a genuine decoded message and the context it was decoded in. Now does anyone want to read it or not??

Another point, FDR could not be sure that war with Japan would lead to war with Germany, how could anyone be sure? That is speculation and really difficult to prove in any case.

[August]

I like the Wiki article on Zimmermans work:

"These theories tend to founder on the logic of the situation. Had Roosevelt and other members of his administration known of the attack in advance, they would have been foolish to sacrifice one of the major instruments needed to win the war just to get the United States into it."

Makes sense. If the object was indeed to get Germany to declare against us that would have been very well served by ambushing and destroying the Japanese fleet before it could attack.