Is it just me, or what? JN ASW skills:

kylesplanet · 01-03-08, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reallydedpoet

Correct KP, it did improve beginning with 1.3

RDP

Yeah after 1.3, sometimes you would get a real dummy then other times, you get a real ace. Of course those guys in TM, well, their just plain mean!

tater · 01-03-08, 06:32 PM

In stock the convoy AI is all set to "stupid" and the TF AI is set to competent, veteran, or elite (more of the latter as the war goes on).

In addition, in stock there are a superabundance of Akizuki uber DDs.

Ducimus · 01-03-08, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylesplanet

. Of course those guys in TM, well, their just plain mean!

Well, i wouldn't want you to get bored.

In TM, AI crew rating comes in two flavors. Competent and veteran, with one elite being an exception. AI sensors were raised to a degree, where i simply couldnt allow elites populating the game world.

BH · 01-03-08, 10:37 PM

I have come to the conclusion that the IJN were not that bad in ASW as some might say. The American submarine captains were that good that they made them look bad. As the war progress like tator mentioned, the japanese improved and started making kills 1943 onward. To little to late though. So TM though not intended to be is closer to reality. You have to use good evasion skills to survive. American submarine captains that engaged escorted convoys were attacked sometimes for hours, with in some cases the help of air units.

tater · 01-03-08, 11:43 PM

As I've said in a few other posts, the failure of IJN ASW was at a higher level than the individual ASW platform. It was a failure of strategic vision, naval culture, etc. The primary failure was not start to convoy earlier and maximize the ASW capability they had.

tater

Ducimus · 01-04-08, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

It was a failure of strategic vision, naval culture, etc.

If im not mistaken, it was the "battleship navy" and the "one decisive battle" mentality.

tater · 01-04-08, 09:26 AM

Yeah, more importantly (for the ASW issue) it was totally focused on offensive capability. Culturally in the IJN ASW was "defensive." As a result it didn't attract officers, it got the dregs given to it.

BH · 01-04-08, 10:02 AM

The question is was the IJN skills in ASW really that bad or were the U.S submarine captains well trained in evasion.

TheSatyr · 01-04-08, 03:02 PM

Captain Hara (Of "Japanese Destroyer Captain" fame) seemed to be rather "iffy" when it came to ASW. When he commanded the Amatsukaze he may have sunk a Dutch boat,(One was lost near the time and place where he attacked it),he also was in one of those 2 DD groups that attacked the Perch,but he just did a few DC runs,lost contact and assumed the sub was sunk.

When he commanded the Shigure,a transport he was escorting was torpedoed and sunk and all he did was make a few DC runs where he "thought" the torps came from,then he went back to the transport to transfer the crew to his ship. He assumed his DC runs would scare off the sub.

Hara was a brilliant DD commander when it came to surface actions,but he was pretty lousy at ASW. It was just pure luck that he sank the Dutch sub. He claims to have personally spotted it on the surface at close range due to a crewman on the bridge of the sub smoking a cigarette. (Hara claims it was the glow from the cigarette that he saw first before actually seeing the sub). When the Amatsukaze turned towards the sub and went to full speed the sub dived,but it was so close that Hara was able to estimate where the sub was and dropped a shallow pattern of DCs that basically nailed the Dutch sub. The Amatsukaze dropped a second pattern of DCs,but by that time there was a large patch of fuel oil rising to the surface.

It does seem that alot of the Japanese ASW kills happened on the first DC run. The Harder being an example.

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01-03-08, 06:32 PM	#2
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	In stock the convoy AI is all set to "stupid" and the TF AI is set to competent, veteran, or elite (more of the latter as the war goes on). In addition, in stock there are a superabundance of Akizuki uber DDs.

01-03-08, 10:37 PM	#4
BH Loader Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 89 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	I have come to the conclusion that the IJN were not that bad in ASW as some might say. The American submarine captains were that good that they made them look bad. As the war progress like tator mentioned, the japanese improved and started making kills 1943 onward. To little to late though. So TM though not intended to be is closer to reality. You have to use good evasion skills to survive. American submarine captains that engaged escorted convoys were attacked sometimes for hours, with in some cases the help of air units.

01-03-08, 11:43 PM	#5
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	As I've said in a few other posts, the failure of IJN ASW was at a higher level than the individual ASW platform. It was a failure of strategic vision, naval culture, etc. The primary failure was not start to convoy earlier and maximize the ASW capability they had. tater

01-04-08, 09:26 AM	#7
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, more importantly (for the ASW issue) it was totally focused on offensive capability. Culturally in the IJN ASW was "defensive." As a result it didn't attract officers, it got the dregs given to it.

01-04-08, 10:02 AM	#8
BH Loader Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 89 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	The question is was the IJN skills in ASW really that bad or were the U.S submarine captains well trained in evasion.

01-04-08, 03:02 PM	#9
TheSatyr Captain Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 545 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Captain Hara (Of "Japanese Destroyer Captain" fame) seemed to be rather "iffy" when it came to ASW. When he commanded the Amatsukaze he may have sunk a Dutch boat,(One was lost near the time and place where he attacked it),he also was in one of those 2 DD groups that attacked the Perch,but he just did a few DC runs,lost contact and assumed the sub was sunk. When he commanded the Shigure,a transport he was escorting was torpedoed and sunk and all he did was make a few DC runs where he "thought" the torps came from,then he went back to the transport to transfer the crew to his ship. He assumed his DC runs would scare off the sub. Hara was a brilliant DD commander when it came to surface actions,but he was pretty lousy at ASW. It was just pure luck that he sank the Dutch sub. He claims to have personally spotted it on the surface at close range due to a crewman on the bridge of the sub smoking a cigarette. (Hara claims it was the glow from the cigarette that he saw first before actually seeing the sub). When the Amatsukaze turned towards the sub and went to full speed the sub dived,but it was so close that Hara was able to estimate where the sub was and dropped a shallow pattern of DCs that basically nailed the Dutch sub. The Amatsukaze dropped a second pattern of DCs,but by that time there was a large patch of fuel oil rising to the surface. It does seem that alot of the Japanese ASW kills happened on the first DC run. The Harder being an example.