Why brag about manual targetting?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I may not use manual targetig or play at the coveted and sacred "100%" but I still have a right to come on here and share my successess if I like.

absolutely - you should be able to come on and share your successes. i agree completely.

sharing your success by telling the story if how you stalked up on a convoy and sank a tanker and a battleship is wonderful and makes for a good and often educational read. part of the difficulty and fun in SH3 is setting up the attack and then surviving the enemy response.

it doesnt irk me one bit to see those stories every day.

What IS annoying are the rare... and i do mean RARE... reports of a "God's gift to the world type sub skipper" who beats his chest as he recounts the story of how he completeley decimated an entire convoy for 100K tons in a matter of about 5 and a half minutes. with lines like "Escorts? no problem! just wait until they are headed right for you and have the weapons officer plot a quick solution and when they are within 500 meters just shove a torpedo down their throats!" - do this on 100% realism or with manual targeting and you will be sleeping with the fishes - eternally!

just take notice that there is a vast difference between "sharing yoru success" and out right bragging about sinking half the worlds merchant population on GWX2 and touting about how GWX was supposed to be hard (not that penny ever did that... just an example)

GWX 2.0 is easy!
IF!! And I do mean IF!!!
You have my weapons!!!
:rotfl:
Hords of Horton Bombers escorted by ME-262's!!!

Not to mention the Modified V1's!


But, it's my game install and I don't post brags about
takeing out entire convoys with one shot.

I also don't release most of what i do because they are
test things that help me define limitations.

[XLjedi]

For me, the game would be a little dull (or too easy) without the TDC interaction. That's actually the part that I find most satisfying. I just don't get that excited over the auto-targetted hits. But that's just me... and how I like to play the game.

You should play it with whatever settings makes it the most enjoyable for you.

Err... was someone actually bragging about that?

[Riggsie15]

Look play how you want. I partially cheat, I do do manual targeting but once the info is put into the TDC I go to the attack map and look at th erun lines of the torps. If I don't like it I ether go back to the scope and get more accurate info or tweak the solution on the attack map. AS for AOB calculation I sometimes not all the time go to the nav map and use the protractor.

Even when the ship is zig-zagging, manual targeting isn't that hard; you just aim up for a 90 degree shot and and when the timing is right quickly redo the calculations and fire away.

I'm fine with this method be cause it still dosen't give a perfect down the center shot and in real life the WO madethe calculations but I also know in some US boats it was also the WO who looked down the scope and gathered the info.

[_Seth_]

Originally Posted by aaronblood

You should play it with whatever settings makes it the most enjoyable for you.

Hear hear!!

[Ryan9118]

I like to play with manual targetting because I like the challenge. I don't feel I'm better than anybody for using it. Actually on the contrary, I'm normally pretty terrible at anything other than a 90* shot within 1000 meters on a clear sunny day with no wind. But doing 100% realism on SH3 is no different than turning off all the driving aids when I play my racing games. I like it for the challenge. Normally the games that get boring quick are the ones that you can master within a day or two. Even if you use auto-targetting, there are other aspects of SH3 you need to learn to stay afloat.

The one thing I really hate about manual targetting is that I haven't played the game in a long time. I'm going to have to re-read and re-learn everything I used before just so I can launch a torpedo... :rotfl:

[CCIP]

I don't think people should put others down for not using it, but certainly bragging about it is valid! Give the realism chaps a break, too. As said before, they put in that much more work into their kills, so they sure have the bragging rights for doing it.

Personally, I don't see a point in not using manual targeting anyway. I don't, but I rarely use TDC also - I just put myself in positions where I can make manually-aimed snapshots and be sure that most of my fish hit. And for the occasional shot, the TDC isn't horribly hard to program. I would also prefer to have a WO helping me with solutions, but only if his solutions had a less-than-laserlike accuracy. For me it takes the fun out of the best part of the game, knowing that I won't miss when it comes down to it. It's sorta like flying a flight sim and letting the autopilot do the landing for me :p

[Canovaro]

I believe it's fine to brag about anything you achieve in this game. That's also what this forum is for. Let us hear about that 100+ escorts you destroyed. I would never engage a single escort. But your story is great all the same.
Looking down on somebody who plays differently is dumb however, because you can always learn something from somebody who sees and enjoys things in a different way or on another level. And if another player is not as exprienced or as you are, then just help him or her out.

[Fenris_Wolf]

I would like to add to the discussion that, with all due respect, I really doubt many people can achieve 150k tonnage with the WO assistance, or stay in a 500m radius of a black swan for more than a few seconds, let alone sink it in a trivial fashion.

Reading some of the statements, I have to say that non-manual targetting does not trivialize anything other than the fact that it requires yet more time in a situation where you're already juggling with enough apples. When you sink convoy escorts you have to establish a plan first of all, intercept and position yourself while observing them closely, ensure you're perfectly stealthed, time it with the pathing routines of the escort and then sink it, and even then (with non-manual targetting) it's way too risky due to there being multiple escorts. Sometimes you shadow it for days and keep disengaging/re-engaging if taking out the escorts is too risky.

My point is; There are always a lot of critically important things going on that require your constant focus, devotion and skills. And like I said, try achieving 150k tonnage without manual targetting, you'll find that the reality is far from how you've put it, i.e., mere clicking of a red button.

I don't recall preparing torpedo solutions was even an issue historically. Atleast I've yet to come across such an account. But it's the hardcore simulation person's thing, the extra topping, the flavor you like. Enjoy it to the hilt but please don't get carried away. So yes, let's have some mutual acknowledgement and let's not make overstatements.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

As a footnote... and speaking in terms of 'realistic play':

Ya shouldn't be wasting torpedoes on escorts.

The tonnage is in the convoy... not with taking out the escorts.

U-boats sank very few escorts in RL. It was generally frowned on.

I think that a player can use WO assistance to plot torpedo solutions and still avoid super-huge-fake-uber tonnage hauls... if they 'choose to play realistically' otherwise.

However, belittling anyone who chooses to increase their realism selections over time as they learn, is simply rude.

Hell. I haven't mastered manual targetting either... I'm simply too busy working on GWX related matters to be bothered with it. I fully intend to better understand it in quieter days to come... when I get around to it though. All I need to know for now is already clear. GWX does not break manual targetting in SH3... and my folder full of downloaded manual targetting information will still be there whenever I'm ready for it.

Sure manual targetting is the more difficult way to go... and those who can should be proud that they can do it... but there is far more to SH3 than firing torpedoes... such as making good decisions that keep your crew alive.

Personally, what irritates me to no end, is people who knowingly use use game exploits/blatant cheats to gain an advantage... and post said game exploitations all over the place to spoil it for everyone.

Once you learn of a game exploitation... you cannot unlearn it.

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by CCIP

I don't think people should put others down for not using it, but certainly bragging about it is valid! Give the realism chaps a break, too. As said before, they put in that much more work into their kills, so they sure have the bragging rights for doing it.

LOL with all due respect, the realism core do get their break and their kudos... however while they may arguably put more "work" into their attacks.

But when I read comments like "Training wheels" "cheating way" "point and shoot" etc and they do come up in threads... I think to myself what a second class Kaleun I am, for using auto and I don't like to be made to feel that..... when they give me a break. I'll give them one back. I'm sick of seeing some 100% realism people round here insinuate that people who auto target and dont play at 100% realism... like me... are "cheats" and other such adjectives.

@KL I agree 100% with you. Game exploits suck.

[Jimbuna]

I remember about 23 years back when I played darts to a high standard, almost professionally because on occasion the odd bank note would change hands.
It was 1984 (IIRC) John Lowe was the World Darts Champion and his sponsors at the time were British Car Auctions and Federation Breweries.
His brewery sponsor was eager to introduce it's various brands into a social club I frequented and played darts for in local and county leagues at the time.
The carrot that was dangled to the committee was "get the best 24 players in the area to your club and we will have John Lowe play them all.....One leg, 501, straight start, double finish....Oh!....and we'll put on a free bar.
I was the first one drawn out of the hat to play so went straight over to the practice board with my friend who was also my shift sergeant at the time (he is dead now, rest his soul).
The practice darts were good....121, 140, 85, 100 etc. etc.

Came to the game and scoring was equal, but John missed x8 with two darts and I was on 69 remaining. I took it out with 2 darts, single 19 and a bull finish.
I was so elated and vaguely remember John coming over and congratulating me and whilst he shook my hand he said in a low voice with a smile "best of three"?
I responded "no thanks John, I'll quit whilst I'm ahead" knowing full well that only one leg per challenger had been allotted for.
The next guy he played was a good mate of mine whom I readily conceded was a better player than me. John required 140, he hit bull (50 points for those who aren't familiar with the game), double top (40) and bull again.
In fact, he never lost a second game all evening.
After the event, a few of us went into the committee room for a drink with him....he turned to my shift sergeant who was still partially uniformed due to the fact he had come direct from his shift and said, jokingly..."I only let him win because I knew you and he were Policemen"....To which my colleague responded, "a lot of people out there think we are w***ers who can only perform in private. Tonight you have seen one uf us perform in public".

For the remainder of the darts season I was the scalp everyone was after (thanks to the publicity in the local press....a copy of which I still have to this day LOL) and hardly won a game or performed to even a semi decent average.

The morale I am trying to explain is.........everyone plays the game to their best ability or to a level they are most comfortable with.
Let us not knock anyone because they have differing abilities or capabilities....in fact, come over to the GWX MP sessions and you'll see all manner of differing levels of gameplay difficulty enjoyed....but also a game played amongst people of mutual understanding and respect for each other.

REMEMBER....NONE OF US IS AS CLEVER AS ALL OF US

What a pretty futile and dreary topic....if I may be so bold.

[Canovaro]

At least it resulted in a nice darts story Jimbuna

[Wulfmann]

While I do manual targeting I really do not do it realistically or how a sub commander would.
Being a right wing Christian American shooter at the gun club as often as possible I simply see the target guess the speed from experience make sure the angle is right and set the fish angle as I think will work.
It is not much different than shooting various firearms but::::::::

What I would like to see rather than the current choice which is player must do every single thing and then set them is this. If I could ask for range, speed, direction etc then set the torpedo angle from the WO report I would be doing what I do now but with crew input.
The way it is now either one excepts the calculations and fires or does every aspect manually of all crew members involved is a wide path, IMO.

Notice on the surface you can ask for nearest ship and get position and range relative to the U-boat but not so submerged.
I would like that same information available submerged but feel the Kaleun should dictate torpedo heading as well as when to fire.

After doing the same hip shooting for a couple years with no other calculations I rarely miss and feel the time concentrating on the target is better than rechecking data.

But, to each his own.

I most certainly agree with those that state there is no "correct" way to enjoy this other than the one that suits each person best.
I believe most of us mean our method as a how we do it share approach and not as a my way's better than your way as the right way is what ever you like it to be.

Wulfmann

[Nicolas]

I agree that its a game and you cant feel superior or something, its silly. i made that SH3Contacts tool to do less search!, but im giving a try to manual targeting because a lot of times (sometimes in shallow water ), with weapon officer assistance i shot escorts (6 of them) with my 6 tubes and then the convoy its alone, with an ix sub and gun... you can imagine like 80,000 tons. or more in the whole night pursuing the convoy, very fun I dont think im better person or something its for fun. Now i cant do that with manual targeting but i want in near future to first sunk the escorts with manual targeting when i learn enough then i will feel that i 'broke the game'