Is "Show Dead Platforms" a "cheat"?

[Blacklight]

It IS a cheat ... and YES I USE IT !!! MUAHAHAHAHAAA !!!!

I think it's just the fact that I like to rub it in the sinking platform's face while she's going down.

It is a cheat.ANd i dont use it. I even dont use linked data sometimes. It kills the fun of hunting.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Imamar

It is a cheat.ANd i dont use it. I even dont use linked data sometimes. It kills the fun of hunting.

On the other hand, you don't get all the info you might get in real life with DW. For example, if you are close to the target, sonar might be able to hear it filling with water, with its bulkheads collapsing and tell you "Yeah, it is probably dead". This option is unavailable in DW, except by using the periscope.

[Stanny]

I voted for "No" option.How "3D view" or "show dead platforms" options can be cheats?The only cheat in both SC and DW is the "Show truth".

Because,when you turn off both auto crewmen and "Show Truth" everything depends on your sonar operational skills only.And there is a situation when you can see only that you are actually able to see due to your sonar operational skills.If you cannot operate the sonar well-you will not see anything sensible.I mean "Show dead platforms" or "3D view" bring very little or completely no help to you during gameplay.

The main idea of the discussed option is just to bring some fun to the very sophisticated,complicated and serious sims.People like admiring their Seawolf class submarines cruising through beautyfull water,like to know that this power is totally under their control.People like to see the results of their skilled engagemets-dead platforms,destroyed by their torpedoes or missiles.

Best regards,
Stan.

[Blacklight]

When I play multiplayer, I always have "Show Dead Platforms" and "Show Truth" turned off completely.
Usually when I play single player, I have them turned off too but occasionally, I have "Show Dead Platforms" on for the hell of it. It depends on my mood.

It is nice to have it turned off and not see exactly how much damage you did till the end of the scenario though. It's like a total mystery until the very end !

[OneShot]

Warfare, be it Air, Land or Sea is mainly about information ... those who have the information about their enemies numbers, type, whereabouts and so on have the advantage ... if you lack this information you have a serious disadvantage because even in our High Tech world you have to "see" (i.e. know where it is and where it will be when your weapon of choice is there to meet it) something before you can hit it.

Now DW simulates this "information warfare" quite good ... you have most of the toys available that you would use in RL. But you don't have all of them and even those which you can use sometimes dont offer the same high fidelity as their RL counterpart. For example the fact that your Sonar Operator would probably be able to tell you if he hears the sounds of a sub which is sinking (unintentionally) and dead. Or all the other tidbits of info you might get from him (sub has stopped their screw, engines are dead ... whatever).

The walkaround for this shortcomming is in my eyes the option to show "Dead Platforms". To me this is my sonar guy telling me that I just hit the target (or whatever) for good and that I can now concentrate on something else. Thats the only information I get from this option and I don't consider it as a cheat.

Besides ... there is only one way to achieve ultimate realism ... enlist in the navy of your country, do the training and serve on the real deal (be it above or below the waves). Everything else is a simulation and thus always at least one step short of being realistic.

@ML : Everything you have mentioned might be obtained in RL through your own sensors (if a sub is blown up in my neighborhood I hear it, as well as the torps who have brought its demise about) or by other ways of information gathering either in real time or time delayed (Ok, small concession here ... the information which would only be available with a time delay is in this case - meaning as instant information in the game - "unrealistic").

[Molon Labe]

In the case of the long range missile strike, sensor data will certainly not be available. In the others it may be available depending on conditions, but it's up to the player to be gathering that data. Usually information is lacking at the moment the shooting starts, it's not worth risking the boat to get that additional information. Once you've been engaged, it is very difficult to maintain the limited situational awareness that you started with.

EDIT: to be a little more practical I'll get more specific. You're in an FFG, tasked to protect a merchant convoy during wartime. Intel tells you that PRC subs 367 and 368 are out of port and may be in your operating area. You got lucky and found one with the helo and sank it. Where do you look for the next one? If you sank 368, you know the best defense is to collapse, it won't be a threat unless it gets within about 5nm. If you sank 367, you need to patrol away from the merchants aggressively because if it detects you first, you die. There's no way in hell ownship sensors will provide that data for you.

Even the difference between having an Akula-I(i) or an Akula-II around can have a significant effect on asset deployment, again, you're not going to know the difference from ownship sensors, at least not until you get DEMON data or an active fix.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Stanny

I mean "Show dead platforms" or "3D view" bring very little or completely no help to you during gameplay.

Just a few examples off the top of my head: Can let you know whether a long range missile salvo took out an escort.. It identifies the platform destroyed when sonar will usually not provide you with a solid classification, which can give you an idea who is left. It can tell you the location of platforms killed by your teammates or AI which you may have been completely unaware of. All of this information has profound implications on tactical choices that have to be made and cannot be dismissed as "very little" help.

[Stanny]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Can let you know whether a long range missile salvo took out an escort...

Yes it does,but it does not show you how many ships are there within this escort.Still,you have to get down to Sonar and start working to detect or check whether there's anything left in this escort.So,there is a flip side of the coin.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Stanny

Yes it does,but it does not show you how many ships are there within this escort.Still,you have to get down to Sonar and start working to detect or check whether there's anything left in this escort.So,there is a flip side of the coin.

That's not a flip side, it's another variable that may be either known or unknown (you shouldn't assume that it is unknown, that's what tasking/intel messages are for, and there is also the limitation that comes from a limited supply of missions to choose from). And it doesn't matter. What matters is that you have piece of the puzzle that you shouldn't have. Maybe maybe you can put it to good use now, maybe you can put it to good use after getting another peice, but either way you've still cheated to get yourself ahead.