US says it has right to kidnap British citizens - Page 2

August · 12-03-07, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEON DEON

So, if I go kidnap Osama from Pakistan and return him to a U S court, the U S court can not prosecute me for Kidnapping.

KEWL!:p :p

More to the point (I think) is that in your scenario Osama would not have his charges dismissed because he was illegally apprehended.

NEON DEON · 12-03-07, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEON DEON

So, if I go kidnap Osama from Pakistan and return him to a U S court, the U S court can not prosecute me for Kidnapping.

KEWL!:p :p

More to the point (I think) is that in your scenario Osama would not have his charges dismissed because he was illegally apprehended.

Oh heck no! The goverment did not grab Osama. I did. then I walked up to the back of the jail and dropped Osama off. It was not the court, the police or the feds. Just plain ole me.

BTW

Who got kidnapped again?

Letum · 12-03-07, 07:11 PM

Intolerable.

Reaves · 12-03-07, 07:46 PM

I blame Bush?

My understanding is that the law exists so IF a criminal is arrested 'illegally' he can still stand trial and allow justice to be served. This is a good thing.

HOWEVER, if they tried to pull that over here without notifing and asking assitance from authorities there would be hell to pay. I'd expect the reaction would make 'freedom fries' look like a childhood prank compared to the boycotts that would start.

Let's face it, we like the USA, but being the big boy we also like to see you fall... it's human nature.

Sailor Steve · 12-03-07, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

US laws may not be permitted to overrule other nations laws, and the validity of US laws ends where the sovereignity of other nations begin - at the latest.

Completely agree. The US has refused to let outside authorities (read UN) tell us what to do on several occassions. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

As several have pointed out, though, so far this is what one lawyer has stated, and there has been no statement from official US sources.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

Intolerable.

Absolutely!

Kapitan_Phillips · 12-04-07, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waste gate

What is the British government's, or any other governments law regarding the apprehension of international criminals? I believe Clause Barbie was kidnapped from Argentina by operatives from another nation.

I suspect that Britain has similar law yet hasn't been in a position to state it in open court.

We dont apprehend the criminals in this country.

August · 12-04-07, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As several have pointed out, though, so far this is what one lawyer has stated, and there has been no statement from official US sources.

Don't say that Steve! Tossing the cold water of reality on our fellow subsimmers anti-US fantasies is like waking a sleep walker...

jumpy · 12-04-07, 09:36 AM

I don't see any fantasies here myself.
And it's no surprise that no comment is forthcoming from us sources; I wouldn't want to publicly discuss some shady, outdated excuse for violating a sovereign nations boarders and abducting foreign nationals either. In essence that is what is being raised here. That the law further helps itself by discounting appeal and pursuing a conviction despite an illegal arrest.
All very convenient if the motivation is there to utilise it.

I don't doubt for a second that the UK would not take advantage of such a loophole if we thought it was to our benefit and that hardly anyone would get to find out about it.
Doesn't make it right though.
When it comes right down to it, it's an insult to any allied nation that an administration is prepared to deal with the citizens or residents of a foreign power in such an underhanded manner.
Alliances, even supposedly close partnerships like the UK/US can be shown as meaningless and 'fair-weather friendships' with such actions. I can't see how one could construe it any other way.

Tchocky · 12-04-07, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpy

When it comes right down to it, it's an insult to any allied nation that an administration is prepared to deal with the citizens or residents of a foreign power in such an underhanded manner.
Alliances, even supposedly close partnerships like the UK/US can be shown as meaningless and 'fair-weather friendships' with such actions. I can't see how one could construe it any other way.

It goes against the soveriegnty of any nation, allied or otherwise. Otherwise agreed

StdDev · 12-04-07, 10:23 AM

I believe that the law in question only says that a foreign suspect can not evade prosecution because he was illegally brought back to the states... it may very well be that the "abductor" would face criminal charges in whichever country he nabbed the suspect in, but that is a seperate legal issue.
I do not believe that the US advocates violating any other countries laws.
All this law is saying is that a foriegn national suspected of crime in the US , if caught (BY ANY MEANS), will face trial! (even if foreign laws were broken to get the suspect here).
The law is insensitive to foreign laws (kinda places our judicial system as "more important" than those of other nations, but the intent is good.. "prosecution of suspected criminals".

P.S. My lawyer can beat up your lawyer!

DeepIron · 12-04-07, 10:33 AM

Quote:

We dont apprehend the criminals in this country.

LOL! We don't either...

We give them drivers licenses, ID cards, health care, food stamps, low paying jobs, housing and social services...

JSLTIGER · 12-04-07, 10:38 AM

Well, the Brits shouldn't be too mad. After all, this kind of reminds me of the impressment of American citizens into the Royal Navy in the early 1800s, but in a different context.

Tchocky · 12-04-07, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSLTIGER

Well, the Brits shouldn't be too mad. After all, this kind of reminds me of the impressment of American citizens into the Royal Navy in the early 1800s, but in a different context.

Hang on, the 1812 war is over :p

StdDev · 12-04-07, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Hang on, the 1812 war is over :p

How did that work out by the way?

Jimbuna · 12-04-07, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StdDev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Hang on, the 1812 war is over :p

How did that work out by the way?

Generally at the tip of a sword or a musket

12-03-07, 07:11 PM	#18
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Intolerable. __________________

12-03-07, 07:46 PM	#19
Reaves The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,509 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I blame Bush? My understanding is that the law exists so IF a criminal is arrested 'illegally' he can still stand trial and allow justice to be served. This is a good thing. HOWEVER, if they tried to pull that over here without notifing and asking assitance from authorities there would be hell to pay. I'd expect the reaction would make 'freedom fries' look like a childhood prank compared to the boycotts that would start. Let's face it, we like the USA, but being the big boy we also like to see you fall... it's human nature. __________________

12-04-07, 09:36 AM	#23
jumpy Admiral Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midlands, UK Posts: 2,139 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	I don't see any fantasies here myself. And it's no surprise that no comment is forthcoming from us sources; I wouldn't want to publicly discuss some shady, outdated excuse for violating a sovereign nations boarders and abducting foreign nationals either. In essence that is what is being raised here. That the law further helps itself by discounting appeal and pursuing a conviction despite an illegal arrest. All very convenient if the motivation is there to utilise it. I don't doubt for a second that the UK would not take advantage of such a loophole if we thought it was to our benefit and that hardly anyone would get to find out about it. Doesn't make it right though. When it comes right down to it, it's an insult to any allied nation that an administration is prepared to deal with the citizens or residents of a foreign power in such an underhanded manner. Alliances, even supposedly close partnerships like the UK/US can be shown as meaningless and 'fair-weather friendships' with such actions. I can't see how one could construe it any other way. __________________ when you’ve been so long in the desert, any water, no matter how brackish, looks like life

12-04-07, 10:38 AM	#27
JSLTIGER The Old Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Parkland, FL, USA Posts: 1,437 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Well, the Brits shouldn't be too mad. After all, this kind of reminds me of the impressment of American citizens into the Royal Navy in the early 1800s, but in a different context. __________________ Thor: Intel Core i7 4770K\|ASUS Z87Pro\|32GB DDR3 RAM\|11GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080Ti Black\|256GB Crucial M4 SSD+2TB WD HDD\|4X LG BD-RE\|32" Acer Predator Z321QU 165Hz G-Sync (2540x1440)\|Logitech Z-323 2.1 Sound\|Win 10 Pro Explorer (MSI GL63 8RE-629 Laptop): Intel Core i7 8750H\|16GB DDR4 RAM\|6GB GeForce GTX 1060\|128GB SSD+1TB HDD\|15.6" Widescreen (1920x1080)\|Logitech R-20 2.1 Sound\|Win 10 Home

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12-04-07, 10:23 AM	#25
StdDev Legend of the Sea Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: the Great Wet North Posts: 635 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I believe that the law in question only says that a foreign suspect can not evade prosecution because he was illegally brought back to the states... it may very well be that the "abductor" would face criminal charges in whichever country he nabbed the suspect in, but that is a seperate legal issue. I do not believe that the US advocates violating any other countries laws. All this law is saying is that a foriegn national suspected of crime in the US , if caught (BY ANY MEANS), will face trial! (even if foreign laws were broken to get the suspect here). The law is insensitive to foreign laws (kinda places our judicial system as "more important" than those of other nations, but the intent is good.. "prosecution of suspected criminals". P.S. My lawyer can beat up your lawyer!