Blackwater security

[Etienne]

Wow, I actually agree wholeheartedly with Skybird. I'll mark the calendar.

And Fish, that article is obviously very biased, so you might want to take it with a grain of salt. Or, you know, the whole shaker.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Etienne

Wow, I actually agree wholeheartedly with Skybird. I'll mark the calendar.

And Fish, that article is obviously very biased, so you might want to take it with a grain of salt. Or, you know, the whole shaker.

This one is from The New York Times:

BAGHDAD, Sept. 18 — A preliminary Iraqi report on a shooting involving an American diplomatic motorcade said Tuesday that Blackwater security guards were not ambushed, as the company reported, but instead fired at a car when it did not heed a policeman’s call to stop, killing a couple and their infant.

More:
http://www.nytimes.com:80/2007/09/19...html?th&emc=th

[The Avon Lady]

Suddenly, Blackwater is becoming a more and more appropriate name.

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...506554,00.html

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Suddenly, Blackwater is becoming a more and more appropriate name.

Backwater is the name they need for their next posting!

You have to wonder about the conflict of intrest, with policians, directors and lawyers moveing from one side to another.:hmm:

[bradclark1]

you said they do not become active without order from state department. That is not true - they are
a private business company that become actiove by order of it's customers. and that can be everyone having
the money.

No, what I said was 'without clearence', without a nod.

That is not true - they are a private business company that become actiove by order of it's
customers. and that can be everyone having the money.

You are talking about individuals here, not mercenary unit's.

The miserable record of merc operations in Columbia - well rejected in the US, I know

Not at all. It's no secret that the CIA hires ex-special forces and pilots to work in South America against rebel's and drug lords. I'd call that sanctioned. There was even two stories last year on it. One was on the dangers of the job ( a wife complained because her husband was killed), and another was when a plane went down and the pilot and operaters were gone when rescue got to them. presumably by the bad guys, never to be seen again.

Locals complain heavily about their presence, and two years ago their have been several allegations
of drug-related murder commited by mercs.

Haven't heard a thing.

You see merc companies, their legal status, and the freedom of action, and their support by the regular army, too rosy and too harmless.

I think you like to see bogeymen. I'll stick with what I have said. Being a 'freelance merc' just isn't an healthy occupation anymore. Mostly todays mercs are bodyguards, security and trainers.

In 2003, France criminalized mercenary activities.
In 1998 South Africa passed the "Foreign Military Assistance Act" that banned citizens and residents from any involvement in foreign wars.
In Italy, it is illegal to recruit Italians on Italian soil for fighting in behalf of a foreign government
without the approval of the Italian government.

Merc companies:
Executive Outcomes - Angola, Sierra Leone, and other locations worldwide (closed 31 December 1998)
Sandline International - Papua New Guinea, Sierra Leone (closed 16 April 2004)
Gurkha Security Guards, Ltd - Sierra Leone.
DynCorp International - Bosnia, Somalia, Angola, Haiti, Colombia, Kosovo, Kuwait, Afghanistan (active)
Defensecurity [1] - Iraq, Afġānistān, Kuwait, Colobia, Kossovo, East Timor (active)

In February 2002, a British Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) report about PMCs noted that the military service demands of the UN and international civil organizations might mean that it is cheaper to pay PMCs than use soldiers. Yet, then, after considering using PMCs to support UN operations, the UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan, decided against it.

Probably the last attempted 'merc' job of our time.
Simon Mann, the British leader of a group of 67 alleged mercenaries accused of plotting a coup in Equatorial Guinea has been sentenced to seven years in jail... The other passengers got 12 months in jail for breaking immigration laws while the two pilots got 16 months...The court also ordered the seizure of Mann's $3m Boeing 727 and $180,000 found on board.
On 2 May 2007 a Zimbabwe court ruled that Mann should be extradited to Equatorial Guinea to face charges. One of Mann's co-conspirators has already died at Black Beach prison.
A couple of good links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercena...omestic.29_law
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...17172984/pg_18

[Skybird]

You are talking about individuals here, not mercenary unit's.

No I don't.

Not at all. It's no secret that the CIA hires ex-special forces and pilots to work in South America against rebel's and drug lords. I'd call that sanctioned. There was even two stories last year on it. One was on the dangers of the job ( a wife complained because her husband was killed), and another was when a plane went down and the pilot and operaters were gone when rescue got to them. presumably by the bad guys, never to be seen again.

No, I referred to the unpleasant truth behgind the operations, their real intetion, that is widely rejected in the US public awareness. see next below.

Haven't heard a thing.

See above concering "rejected". While you may not find it in american press, two and three years ago it made it into major news reporting and lead essays in Germany and Austria. Even radio broadcasters put major efforts into analysing the situation in hours-long features. I must have two such lengthy recordings soimewhere. If you can understand german, I'll find them and copy and send them to you. they are quite revealing, and backed by solid sources at location. It'S about widespread organized murder, drug trafficing and merc units waging offensive guerilla war against local rebels that resist American companies claiming ground property in areas that are of interst for the big business of the future: ressources for biotech companies researching in chemistry, and pharmaceutics in the main, but other areas of economic interest as well.

I say again, you see the true face behind the public mask of the international merc business too tame, believing the claims that are made about nthem by officials in public. "Never trust a public spokesman!" If they are banned here and there, is of little importance. Note that some articles linked in this thread specifically point at that merc companies specifically work outside legal countercontrol, and without licenses, and do not care if they are legalized in their action by the government in place. A widespread problem, obviously. such companies are priovate armies that can be rent by everybody, and that do operate outside recognition and countercontrol by public representatioves and the american congress. that's why they are loved so much: because they cannot be questioned and controlled by Congress.

In 2003, France criminalized mercenary activities.

Absurd. One could argue that the "legion etranger" is nothing else but a mercenary unit.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Absurd. One could argue that the "legion etranger" is nothing else but a mercenary unit.

That one statement shows you didn't even look at the links I provided because there is a specific paragraph in the wiki merc link that deals with them. If you won't even bother why bother to argue?

[Skybird]

Rest assured I think i remember the passage you mean. It was also about the Ghurkas, right? I have read it. It's just that I do not agree. a mercenary is somebody who allows himself getting hired for money for war or war-like jobs outside his own national army and that nation's governmental soverignity. The legion is closer to the mercenary armies that were hired by italian city states in the past, than to regular French units. The legion is a unit of foreigners, mercs, that are hired by France and thus - are under French command. In contemporary language, they often are referred to as "mercenaries", too. If the legion is a private enterprise whose services are hired by france, or is directly run by france, does not change the fact that the employees are mercenaries.

the exception is if you fight in a foreign army - but for your original country. An example are the Polish pilots and soldiers fighting with the Brits under British command against the Nazis - to free Poland.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I have read it. It's just that I do not agree. a mercenary is somebody who allows himself getting hired for money for war or war-like jobs outside his own national army and that nation's governmental soverignity.

The law says different.

French Foreign Legionnaires deploys and fights as an organized unit of the French Army. This means that as members of the armed forces of France these soldiers are not mercenary soldiers per APGC77 Art 47.e and APGC77 Art 47.f. of the Rules of War.

Because you disagree with that law does not make it null and void.

On Columbia the only reference I have found is this in Pravda dated 2001:
The AUC (United Self-Defence of Columbia), which have mercenaries from the United States of America in their ranks, have been responsible for horrendous killings and torture of civilians in recent years.
http://english.pravda.ru/usa/2001/11/22/21621.html

This does not say American mercenary units as you stated. It's saying they have Americans in their ranks so it's not a U.S. government plot. Although the AUC is not known for targeting Americans, it has been explicitly linked to narco-trafficking, which deeply affects the United States. The AUC was designated a terrorist group by the U.S. State Department on Sept. 10, 2001.
As far as American sponsored merc units working for pharmaceutical companies I have not been able to find anything. If you can find anything I'm willing to look.