1914: Shells of Fury

[Hitman]

now that is interesting....i didn't know that they only had the three gyro angles ....if it were possible to restrict the player to the same set up...then that would have a huge impact on the gameplay realism etc etc.....how long did it take for a torp to turn the full 90 degrees? or did they have rotable torp launchers..or similar?

The german WW1 torpedoes were capable of any Gyro Angle between -90 and +90 (90 left and 90 right), however it's the commanders who only used 0/90/270 because of the easyness of the firing solutions.

0º is the one to use when you are perpendicular to the target course, as you have already learned,

90 and 270º are the perfect settings when you are running paralell to the target either in the same direction ("Running fight" in naval terminology) or in the opposite ("En passant" in naval terminology). Those are the perfect shots when your approach was miscalculated and you would be too close to fire a torpedo if staying in perpendicular course. In those cases, you would turn to have the same or the opposite course as the enemy and when he reaches you, you would shoot either left or right using exactly the same formula as for the straigth shot....only difference being your bow is 90 degrees off and thus the torpedo turn of 90º .In the end, the result is the same as with the perpendicular shot, only you can now have your bow pointed elsewhere

Also very useful for shots inside convoys you place your sub in the middle of two colums and shoot a salvo splitted right and left with 90º Gyro angles and hit at the same time the ships in two of the columns

There is no need to restrict the player to those two angles, nobody should be interested in using anything else than them because calculating it becomes a nihgtmare (That's why the TDC was later developed and in use during WW2)

[CB..]

Cheers HM now i see what you mean!!
it might be possible by editing those entrys i showed ...if i get time i will experiment with them and see what happens..it sounds like a definite improvement..with some great gameplay and realism opportunites!

[horsa]

Seeadler has replied. He says that he did not add any extra models. He replaced an existing model with his model of Konig by converting it to the DirectX format.

Basically this is what I've done here. I converted Seeadler's Konig to 3DS and made a crude retexture using UVMapper. This was imported into Deep Exploration and exported as a DirectX format model. I renamed this as Scharnhorst_voll and overwrote the existing Scharnhorst_voll file. I also added the texture plate to the textures folder.

I'm not very familiar with 3DMax so I tend to work out of Sketchup and export as 3DS. Uvmapper is a quick wysiwyg way of texturing that I prefer.

I'm sure it's only a short step to creating a new model file and adding an entry to a catalogue somewhere.

[CB..]

i see...yes it's the conversion to directX that 3dsmax is struggling with...at least with the X file exporter plug in i have at the moment....it imports the SOF models like a dream blam straight open with 3dsmax there it all is..but exporting it back out again.....there's the snag....the game accepts the edited model perfectly..no crashes etc...but it's invisable LOL....am trying variuos different settings with the export to see what the issue is....it may even be a matter of scale.....it might be exporting the model file hugely too large (in which case i am seeing nothing because i am inside the sub model...or it may be the exact opposite ...and the thing may be a tiny speck beneath me...or it may have reveresed all the polygon normals so it's shown inside out and there fore transparent...any number of things can go wrong or be set incorrectly....

so it's the conversion to the X file format that i need advice on...if he has 3dsmax what exportor plug-in is he using etc...and what settings does he use and so on...

in the mean time i willl take a look at deep exploration (it rings a bell think i've used it before..) and try one or two other tricks....see if i can find a way...

yes i think adding new ships etc is just a matter of correctly adding the new vessel to the games list of game objects....

it won't automatically use it tho untill you script it into the missions..which you obviuosly allready know how to do lol

tho to be honest with you i don't think subsim.com is the right place to discuss this excellent sim...

[horsa]

Yes, you're right about the scale. The models are about 5 times too big for SOF.

[horsa]

it won't automatically use it tho untill you script it into the missions..which you obviuosly allready know how to do lol

No. I'm pretty clueless on that . I knew that the Scharnhorst appeared early on in one of the missions ( No. 9 : Safe Return Home ). By overwriting the scharnhorst model file meant Konig would appear instead.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by CB..

tho to be honest with you i don't think subsim.com is the right place to discuss this excellent sim...

Curious for the reason here :hmm:


RDP

[clive bradbury]

Ok, gentlemen, you have convinced me. Downloading the program now...

[CB..]

Originally Posted by horsa

No. I'm pretty clueless on that . I knew that the Scharnhorst appeared early on in one of the missions ( No. 9 : Safe Return Home ). By overwriting the scharnhorst model file meant Konig would appear instead.

one way is to add this to any mission file (use the examples i've posted in the thread for the precise place to add the entry or just have a look thru a few stock ones..it's pretty clear where to add it...just find on with similar entrys and add yours to the list

ApplyStateEngine $0,"PassByZigZag#Scharnhorst#2.081,56.309,500000,1 #18"

go to the co-ordinates 2.082,56,309 chug about a bit and it will apppear..

add this to the list aswell

ApplyStateEngine $0,"PassByZigZag#Lion#2.081,56.309,500000,1#18"


and you'll get to see the two ships duke it out in a battle to the death...


i fancied see-ing another of my flottilla buddys knocking about the place...

so used a similar method to the above and here they are..crew on deck and all...



it really is no harder than SH2 for this sort of stuff...in fact in a lot of ways it is actualy easier to add ships to missions etc etc

convoys are a little different..and i'm not sure that side of things will really pan out to anything like a high standard..tho i could be wrong...it's hard to get convoy placement and formation keeping...you can see it is possible by generating a convoy mission thru the generator...but scripting that ....looking at the files for the convoy is complex...and i would not know how to incorporate that code into a normal campaign mission file..and even if i could i still think they're would be in game issues that made it less than satisfactory..escorts not returning to the ships after an attack etc etc...
but loosely formated convoys should work...by the simple inclusion of several ships and a few escorts given the same route and speed instructions..which is how the stock campaign handels the few small convoys it has incorporated..

FLOATER would know more about this more complex code work as it is AFAIK wrritten entriely in some form of Visual basic code...

in fact i reckon Floater could knck up a decent mission editor in no time at all...

why do i think that???

LOL
because I could knock up a basic mission editor myself ...and if I can make one...Floater could do it in his sleep!!!


on the modelling side here's that full 3 man watch crew idea i mentioned...

the third man is the stock one which you would see in game but ins't shown here..



unfortunately i am no closer to finding a way to export the model back into SOF from 3DSMAX...
i don't have an awfull lot of patince for fiddling about with model file formats exported settings etc etc etc...

love making the models etc hate all the anal p*ssing about needed to get things correct for inclusion into games..

tho should any-one deign to provide me the neccessary information on the correct X file plug in settings to export from 3dsmax or similar..i can now provide information on how to add a completely new ship model to the game.

here is a unique and new vessel using a stock model copied and renamed (along with a new texture file etc etc)

it's a german small cargo ship..



tho as you can probably see there is no smoke coming from the funnels so that is an indication that the job itself is not completely done...but as a stationary ship in a harbour area this would be perfect....


swop you this info for the exporter info....:hmm: :rotfl:
as you can maybe tell i stopped having fun "sharing" this info about one and a half pages ago..it's allready beginning to detract from the enjoyment i get from playing the game itself..and that's a "NO NO" ..i'm sorry i just can't take my self seriously enough to compete with the vibes..LOL. taking my self seriuosly isn't any FUN LOL!!!...this is just stored momentum. to get it out of my system so to speak..time to retire disgracefully back to my web-site again i feel.

[horsa]

as you can maybe tell i stopped having fun "sharing" this info about one and a half pages ago..it's allready beginning to detract from the enjoyment i get from playing the game itself..and that's a "NO NO" ..i'm sorry i just can't take my self seriously enough to compete with the vibes..LOL. taking my self seriuosly isn't any FUN LOL!!!...this is just stored momentum. to get it out of my system so to speak..time to retire disgracefully back to my web-site again i feel.

I'm not sure what this is about. Sounds like there's a bit of history in there somewhere.

swop you this info for the exporter info

I would if I could but sadly this isn't something I have for 3DMax.

ApplyStateEngine $0,"PassByZigZag#Lion#2.081,56.309,500000,1#18"

Thanks. This looks useful. I'm too used to the direct simple route on a single mission file ( as in DC/SH2 ) .

[silentrunner]

Originally Posted by CB..

i ordered shells of fury from amazon.de
and it turned up today...(3 days to deliver from germany to the uk.. not bad)
here's my initail impressions of the game..

1/ it runs with out the dvd in the drive-- which always puts me at ease with a game..purely for convience sake and it shows the devs are IMO see-ing things from the players point of view ..

2/it isn't on first glance an easy sim to play ie it's not arcade in nature..

3/it's obviuosly eminiently moddable...

4/it's worth buying just to see the excellent WW1 models in action..

5/it's in german so i haven't got a clue what half the buttons options do... lol going to have to babelfish them to find out what does what why and how..

6/the AI seems to be very good ..for example a lone merchant on spotting me approaching... immediately turned round and high tailed it away in the opposite direction to it's original course.......making this the first subsim i've played where a lone merchant does this..i chased it..caught it and every time i turned to fire it maneuvered away from me again making it damn near impossible to get anything remotely like an easy shot...
this in itself is far FAR in advance of lone merchant AI behaviuor displayed (as stock) in other similar sims (SH2/3/4 et al)
the normal lone merchant AI response (if your lucky that is) in the SH2/3/4 games is for it to zig zag but basically carry onsteaming towards you....this merchant in shells of fury had a much better plan of action....it worked i could not get into a good firing position at all ..for torps anyway) !!

7/i'm a fan of WW1 stuff so it has the edge in that area..

8/the graphics etc are customisable..so i was able to get it running reasonably well on my machine (which is quite old...tho it ran Sh3 very well)

9/the actual graphics are atmospheric...but not it has to be said in any way stunning...but it looks well to me

10/it occasionaly stalls on loading some of the stock missions..requiring a ctrl/alt/delt/ exit

11/there are no crew voices at all?? maybe an option i haven't found...can't see any crew sound files anywhere tho..that's a shame if true

12/IMO it was well worth the money and has with any luck...a great deal of flexible future possibilites due to the open ended and editable file structure.. as far as i can tell there isn't a single elemnt of the game graphics ..sound.. weather... effects...missions..campaigns and even model files that cannot be added to edited and enhanced

13/if your a fan of WW1....and enjoy subsims etc...and enjoy modding a entirely open and freely editable game of such....BUY IT...you won't be too disapointed ..and who knows you may find out it is home from home
gets a thumbs up from me...

tho only time will tell of course..

I baught it in U.S. and it is in english

[CB..]

wow......had to post this...

do you know that the AI subs can send you intelligible signals via morse lamp

was tottling along behind an AI sub and noticed that it was ahem "blinking at me"..with a light attached to it's rigging masts..blink blink blink...blink blink...

lo and behold when it had finished a message appeared in the task bar with the translated message..it was wishing me good luck...

checked the code work for this in the mission script and it.s fully scriptable. dynamicaly dependant on set conditions..

this morse lamp isn't built into the model of the sub...it's a seperate model file that seems to be automatically added to any vessel if called for in the missions script...

well guys......how's that for detail..the sim can send you dynamic radio messages..AND if this offends any-ones sens of realism ....well......the sim can send you contact reports via morselamp directly from friendly vessels and or AI subs....now that's really pushing the boat out for detail..any-one who is offended by AI kaptains signaling you via a morse lamp from the bridge of their vessel...with dynamicaly correct and usefull information (or just wishing you good luck!) has completely lost the plot..

as i was saying this sim has features that other alledgedly more serious sims haven't even dreamn't about..

damn the codes hard to write into the missions tho...which is why i gues the stock campaign doesn't contain these elements.

if you want to see the morse lamp in action play the stock

Sicherer Heimkehr

mission....as it starts keep a very close eye on the AI sub ahead of you...take a look at the strange device attached to it's rigging mast heads

watch it blink out a morse message..then look at your task bar...

then if your still bored....look up and behind you and there's a zeppelin floating majesticaly there in the moonlight..

there's a properly animated light house in another of the stockers also...that's another code job...

folks look down their nose at this sim at their peril i can tell you..

[horsa]

That's amazing. Like you said there are some very fine features in this sim.
It makes you wonder what its history is. Did it start out as something more ambitious and then run out of money and have to cut some corners to get completion ? :hmm:

Mucking about with the models these last few days it's thrown up some interesting tit bits. It seems the game is capable of taking models with 100k polys - that's some punch !!
I also noticed that some of the stations were present as 3D models although they are just flat panels - made me wonder if more complex 3D models are possible ???? :hmm:

[CB..]

i added the morse lamp signal code to the first training mission...trying to strip it down to the most basic application to suit my experience with Visual Basic Code..(which isn't huge)
here's the rub ..im sure the entire mission scritping is written in straight up and down..Visual Basic code...so the sky really is the limit..tough to do depending on your experience with Vb code..but for a expert VB coder ..well..you can imagne the end results would be pretty astounding..

the above example is a simple time based job..

20 seconds into the mission the AI uboat ahead sends me a morse lamp message telling me where my patrol zone is located..

see the task bar for the translated message..see the white dot above the AI sub for the morse lamp..(it blnks on and off very nicely thank you )

not as yet genuinely dynamic...but i can at least give the player his mission instructions by MORSE LAMP at the start of each patrol.. wether this is realistic or not is entirely irrelevant ...with time and practice anything could be done with the capability..this is just one example..the next step up (code complexity wise) might be to rendevous with this sub mid patrol and then be given additional information on where to patrol...instead of it simply being there at the beginning..what the next step up is is only limited by coding ability and imagination..

yes your right about the interface screens.as i said...in a way they allready are 3D
be worth an experiment to try and extend those flat x file screens into something else...add cylinders to place the instruments onto..might work

[toolsey]

CB, thanks to your posts and Horsa's you have got me excited in this game again.
Today i received Shells of Fury in English from USA, strategy first version, so i will download your mods for it, thanks very much, i have been using the German Version from Amazon.de for past year, but could not understand properly what was going on so hopefully i will get into it better now.

Horsa, have you a mod for a graded reticle you mentioned in a earlier post, i think it would add to the atmosphere of the game with that, hope both of you keep up the good work and lets hope Shells of Fury gets its own forum.

Also just received a book from Amazon Uk entitled U boat Stories narratives of WW1 U boat sailors for a few pounds, really good read.