Is this just Vista, or what?

bsalyers · 09-03-07, 11:15 PM

You're right, Theluckyone17, I should do that, and it would work; however...
it pisses me off that the Program Files folder is locked. That's where programs belong - including games. Even ones that have to be modified. If you're gonna have a folder called "Programs", then I, for one, believe programs should live there. I like an orderly computer, and I like to keep things where they belong.
Instead, I've chosen the inelegant solution of skipping JSGME and installing my mod files directly to the Data folder. So there's no going back. It's a pain in the @ss, but it makes my mods work and lets me keep my programs where they should be.
I think there should be a bettter answer for running SH4 mods under Vista and I hope it turns up soon.
Thanks for your reply.

theluckyone17 · 09-03-07, 11:27 PM

Not a problem... I think I reinstalled SH4 about five times in the midst of playing with JSGME and various mods, 'til that particular solution hit me in the head. I agree with you completely... this "feature" of Vista is doing nothing more than irritating us, in it's current form. IT would've been nice if MS had fully implemented a "versioning" feature, where overwritten files located under "Program Files" would've been moved to a "Compatibility location", and organized appropriately... in case we wanted to revert back to a previous version of a specific file. 'Course, then we'd be wondering why our hard drives are all clogged up, after these huge data files get packed away for versioning history... *sigh*. I'd settle for MS simply providing a toggle switch for the darn thing.

I understand about the desire for neatness... unfortunately, I deal way too much with Linux, who's general file system structure makes a lot of sense to me. Better than Windows, at least... and as a result, I just give in.

Seadogs · 09-04-07, 01:21 AM

Well I believe the new system has it's uses, but C:/Program files is no longer a good place to put your games. As far as bieng orderly, I just created a C:/Games Directory and that was that. Hopefully they will have the sense to reflect something like this in future installer aps.

JScones · 09-04-07, 02:17 AM

To save me re-typing... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...12&postcount=5

bsalyers · 09-04-07, 02:30 AM

OK. Well, now everyone including JScones himself has told me not to install my program to the Programs folder. I get it; don't fight city hall.

What I don't get is this: when I manually overwrote my Data files inside my SH4 program folder with the mods' data, it worked. My game got modded. I started SH4, there was Trigger Maru and Captain Midnight's Silent Service Graphics mods, working perfectly.

Why does it work when I do it manually, but not when I use JSGME? If I can write files to the Ubisoft folder, shouldn't there be a way to allow JSGME to do it?

JScones · 09-04-07, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsalyers

OK. Well, now everyone including JScones himself has told me not to install my program to the Programs folder. I get it; don't fight city hall.

What I don't get is this: when I manually overwrote my Data files inside my SH4 program folder with the mods' data, it worked. My game got modded. I started SH4, there was Trigger Maru and Captain Midnight's Silent Service Graphics mods, working perfectly.

Why does it work when I do it manually, but not when I use JSGME? If I can write files to the Ubisoft folder, shouldn't there be a way to allow JSGME to do it?

Firstly, you seem to be getting two separate sets of permission confused.

Elevating permission for JSGME does no more than give *it* permission to modify/add/remove files in your Program Files folder. You have done this, and by virtue of the fact that a MODS folder was created, it has worked; JSGME is now a happy camper and is allowed to modify any file in Program Files.

HOWEVER if you subsequently try to extract a mod directly into the MODS folder, Vista's UAC will kick in again because a *different* process is attempting to modify Program Files (ie NOT JSGME - it's most likely not even open at this stage - this time it's 7-zip or whatever your extraction program is). In this case, you need to elevate the permission of your extraction program in much the same way that you elevated permission in JSGME. Or, alternatively, you can extract the mod *outside* of Program Files and drag into the MODS folder. As *you* are doing this, Vista will allow it to occur. The difference is *you* are doing it, not some system invoked tool, which doesn't appear to have the appropriate permission anyway.

Hope this is clear - let me know if not. UAC and File Virtualization can be quite confusing!

bsalyers · 09-04-07, 08:22 AM

Ah, that makes sense, I'm beginning to get it. So, if I'm understanding you, by executing my decompression utility (in this case, as you rightly guessed, 7Zip) with elevated privileges, the files would actually GO where I tell them to go, rather than pretending to go there? That's logical. However, before I gave up and just threw the files in the program's folders, the last thing I tried was extracting the files to my desktop and manually dragging them into the MODS folder. It seemed to work; the mods showed up and JSGME saw them. I enabled them in the correct order and that took about as much time as it should have. But when I started the game - nothing. It was a pristine, vanilla version, completely unmodded.
Bewildering.

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09-03-07, 11:15 PM	#1
bsalyers Sparky Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 152 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	You're right, Theluckyone17, I should do that, and it would work; however... it pisses me off that the Program Files folder is locked. That's where programs belong - including games. Even ones that have to be modified. If you're gonna have a folder called "Programs", then I, for one, believe programs should live there. I like an orderly computer, and I like to keep things where they belong. Instead, I've chosen the inelegant solution of skipping JSGME and installing my mod files directly to the Data folder. So there's no going back. It's a pain in the @ss, but it makes my mods work and lets me keep my programs where they should be. I think there should be a bettter answer for running SH4 mods under Vista and I hope it turns up soon. Thanks for your reply.

09-03-07, 11:27 PM	#2
theluckyone17 Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: Niskayuna, NY Posts: 482 Downloads: 103 Uploads: 0	Not a problem... I think I reinstalled SH4 about five times in the midst of playing with JSGME and various mods, 'til that particular solution hit me in the head. I agree with you completely... this "feature" of Vista is doing nothing more than irritating us, in it's current form. IT would've been nice if MS had fully implemented a "versioning" feature, where overwritten files located under "Program Files" would've been moved to a "Compatibility location", and organized appropriately... in case we wanted to revert back to a previous version of a specific file. 'Course, then we'd be wondering why our hard drives are all clogged up, after these huge data files get packed away for versioning history... sigh. I'd settle for MS simply providing a toggle switch for the darn thing. I understand about the desire for neatness... unfortunately, I deal way too much with Linux, who's general file system structure makes a lot of sense to me. Better than Windows, at least... and as a result, I just give in.

09-04-07, 01:21 AM	#3
Seadogs Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 228 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Well I believe the new system has it's uses, but C:/Program files is no longer a good place to put your games. As far as bieng orderly, I just created a C:/Games Directory and that was that. Hopefully they will have the sense to reflect something like this in future installer aps.

09-04-07, 02:17 AM	#4
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	To save me re-typing... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...12&postcount=5

09-04-07, 02:30 AM	#5
bsalyers Sparky Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 152 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	OK. Well, now everyone including JScones himself has told me not to install my program to the Programs folder. I get it; don't fight city hall. What I don't get is this: when I manually overwrote my Data files inside my SH4 program folder with the mods' data, it worked. My game got modded. I started SH4, there was Trigger Maru and Captain Midnight's Silent Service Graphics mods, working perfectly. Why does it work when I do it manually, but not when I use JSGME? If I can write files to the Ubisoft folder, shouldn't there be a way to allow JSGME to do it?

09-04-07, 08:22 AM	#7
bsalyers Sparky Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 152 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Ah, that makes sense, I'm beginning to get it. So, if I'm understanding you, by executing my decompression utility (in this case, as you rightly guessed, 7Zip) with elevated privileges, the files would actually GO where I tell them to go, rather than pretending to go there? That's logical. However, before I gave up and just threw the files in the program's folders, the last thing I tried was extracting the files to my desktop and manually dragging them into the MODS folder. It seemed to work; the mods showed up and JSGME saw them. I enabled them in the correct order and that took about as much time as it should have. But when I started the game - nothing. It was a pristine, vanilla version, completely unmodded. Bewildering.