'Let's call God Allah'

[Stealth Hunter]

"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God".

Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God".

Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

Let's use Esperanto for that purpose. Side-effect: it makes the Vatican obsolete and turns the EU headquarter into the new Holy See.

[clive bradbury]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God".

Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

Call him whatever you like - he won't care - he doesn't exist...

[joea]

Originally Posted by clive bradbury

Call him whatever you like - he won't care - he doesn't exist...

IYO but yea, water does exist and is the same whether you call it eau or voda or aqua. As Shakespeare put it "a rose by any other name..." just make sure y'all really talking about water and not one person beer (mmm beer) the other person cyanaide laced koolaid.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Iceman

P.S. Good links AL...from one of them led me to this brief history of the origins of Islam...was a good read.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

More on the same subject plus the consequences of falsifying equations of names and concepts:

Who Is Allah?

[Safe-Keeper]

Well, his original name is Yahweh, so it's not like he's not already been renamed. And it'd help stop this ridiculous misconception that God and Allah are not the same deity.

But yes, of course it's downright moronic nonetheless. Some people:rotfl:.

"Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will call God Allah?" Bishop Tiny Muskens said in an interview broadcast this week. "God doesn't care what we call him."

Moron.

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Well, his original name is Yahweh, so it's not like he's not already been renamed. And it'd help stop this ridiculous misconception that God and Allah are not the same deity.

There's debate on that one. There is one place that has something like the letters Y-V-A-H. Some other place has something completely different (I forget the specifics). At some point, Yaweh became the popular version.

I'd also like to point out that there ARE still leaders in Catholicism. Making outrageous statements -- like this one -- is one way to determine current intention. Don't write this guy off as a surrender-monkey just yet.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by tycho102

There's debate on that one. There is one place that has something like the letters Y-V-A-H. Some other place has something completely different (I forget the specifics). At some point, Yaweh became the popular version.

I have no idea what you're referring to. Unless you're referring to the confusion of the English translation or transliteration.

The Hebrew letters are Yud - Hey - Vav - Hey and always have been. Also known as the Tetragrammaton. Or is it the Getamarathon? Or is is the Turnagremlinon? Whatever...........

More info at Wikipedia.

I'd also like to point out that there ARE still leaders in Catholicism. Making outrageous statements -- like this one -- is one way to determine current intention. Don't write this guy off as a surrender-monkey just yet.

No! No! This one's a chimp. :p

[Rockin Robbins]

One thing is clear. Allah is the god of the Koran and God is the name of the God of the Torah and the Bible. They do not have the same characteristics, and in fact, there are stark irreconcilable differences between the two. Both cannot co-exist. Either one of them exists, or none of them exists.

People have a choice to believe in one, the other, or none. Their choice has no bearing on the truth, which is not subject to a vote. (Who voted in the law of gravity. Can we repeal it?) This choice should be freely made by people not subject to restrictions, harm or lack of opportunity because they have made the "wrong" choice.

It is clear that in "Christian" and "Jewish" countries, people of other faiths are tolerated and integrated into their societies and given full rights of citizenship. The same cannot be said for Moslem countries, where making the "wrong" choice can be punished by measures up to and including death. When you believe the truth, you need not fear those who believe differently. Only when you know you are in error do you need to enforce your belief system. The borders of Islam with all civilizations runs with blood. What does this say about Islam as now practiced? Are all other civilizations wrong? Or is the one thing they all commonly have a problem with what is really wrong? Just two things to think about.

Christianity once had the same problem, so I'm not casting stones. During the Crusades, we were the savages and Islam was the cradle of civilization. The West received all we know about the Romans, Greeks, political organization and ancient history as a gift from the tolerant, scientific, politically advanced and enlightened Islamic world we were attacking. In a real sense, our civilization today is a gift from Islam. It is no accident that the Renaissance immediately followed the end of the Crusades. Those ideas, that rebirth of civilization came from exposure the the Islamic world of the day. Now, almost 1000 years later, the shoe is on the other foot. It could be strongly argued that we have an obligation somehow give to them as they gave to us, to help them come out of their own dark ages, or they face anihilation, guilty and innocent alike. It would be a tragedy of unimaginable proportions if it came to that. But if present tactics of radical Islam continue, there may be only a choice of whose innocents will die. Eventually we will choose theirs.

[HMCS]

I disagree. Nothing is clear.

The whole notion is ridiculous. If there's a god, and that's a BIG if, he has left us to it. He's obviously not watching the store.

I'm not an atheist, per se. Deist is a better description. I believe in god, I just don't think that he gives a hoot. Heaven (or hell) is whatever we create in the now.

You have to do better than to just say "there's a god because it's written right here...."

[bookworm_020]

I believe that god himself told moses what to call him

"I AM"

[HMCS]

Hmmm. Maybe so.

As long as you take the biblical exodus story for what it is. A load of heifer-dust.

The stories are obviously apochrypal.

But I get what you mean.

[Happy Times]

During the Crusades, we were the savages and Islam was the cradle of civilization. The West received all we know about the Romans, Greeks, political organization and ancient history as a gift from the tolerant, scientific, politically advanced and enlightened Islamic world we were attacking. In a real sense, our civilization today is a gift from Islam. It is no accident that the Renaissance immediately followed the end of the Crusades. Those ideas, that rebirth of civilization came from exposure the the Islamic world of the day.

I would give a max 1/3 credit to Islam on Renaissance, the rest goes to the Byzantine Empire and Catholic church on preserving the Greco-Roman heritage of Europe. And to the Medici and other families for sponsoring these arts and sciences.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by HMCS

The stories are obviously apochrypal.

Oh really? How so?

Already discussed earlier this year and beforehand. If you want to revive the last dormant thread, it's here. There were other such threads as well.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

I would give a max 1/3 credit to Islam on Renaissance, the rest goes to the Byzantine Empire and Catholic church on preserving the Greco-Roman heritage of Europe. And to the Medici and other families for sponsoring these arts and sciences.

That's the problem. The Catholic church in both camps had lost all of that: art, history, politics, science, logic, Greco-Roman heritage. Actually they had done worse than that. They destroyed it as unholy pagan dog crap.Yes, precious little remnants of that were held prisoner in remote monasteries, but there weren't getting out to benefit society! Until the Crusaders who went to destroy heathenism and came back with civilization returned, we knew not of Aristotle, Democrates, Archimedes, Euclid, Plato, Socrates, Athens, Sparta, the Persian Empire.... They even lost the recipe for concrete for 1000 years! By the Catholic church's attitude that all human knowlege was contained within the Bible and the church, Western civilization was reduced to tribes of unruly and unruled savages! And I would ask why. And answer that the Catholic church substituted the rule of law for the rule of men, the insular oligarchy at the top of their organization. There was absolutely no protection from the capricious and sometimes cruel decisions of those who happened to be in power at the time. That ALWAYS results in tyranny.

Example from memory, so the names have been omited to protect the forgetful: me. A Catholic general is poised to attack a city of heathens. Their crime: the belief that marriage should be a union of love, not a union of arrangement, and that this union of love was our closest analog, our instructor, of God's love for us. The Catholic general has gained entry into this evil city and contacts his Pope. "Some of these are innocent and remain within the faith. How am I to separate those who are apostate and kill only them?" The pope's infamous reply, "Kill them all and let God sort them out." (this is where you get out your pom-poms and cheer his holiness, perfect expression of Jesus' love) They still retain the fallacy of infallability of the Pope when performing his official function. Oh well... At least they haven't put their nonsensical doctrine into ultimate practice lately. I would point out that this is entirely non-Biblical behavior and does not bear on the truth claims of Christianity at all. It only proves that ANY authority is subject to abuse, and NO authority should be without question or without review. A child-abusing teacher does not prove that teachers are bad. It certainly does not prove that what teachers teach is untrue. This is the logic of many anti-Christians. It is not logic at all but appeal to emotions. (The present abuse of Islam by its radical faction, must also be viewed in this light. It does not necessarily mean that all Islam need be destroyed in order to regain peace.)

Haha! The early Catholic church and 20th century communism sharing the same defect! Ain't life queer? The childrens' crusade could only have happened in a truly alien, primitive, savage society, the likes of which we cannot possibly identify with. (Doesn't he split infinitives well? A sign of true inspiration!)

The explosion of the Renaissance, with the possible exception of the French Revolution and other brain farts, changed Western civilization forever, fueled by the discoveries brought back from the thankfully failed crusades.

Heck, I'm getting out of here to play some Silent Hunter 4. Ducimus was right.