Who was the more evil power in WWII ?

Conservative estimates place the number of confederate soldiers from slave holding families at 30%-35%. Tha leaves 65%-70% of an army of 880,000 to 1,000,000 who had little to gain from slavery and perhaps much to loose. Slavery depressed wages much like illegal immigration depresses wages today. These men were fighting for something else.

Also there were an estimated 50,000 black confederate solders. What were they fighting for?

[fatty]

I think the Civil War comparison is hard to make and is a little more convoluted because of the many reasons for the war and neither side was out to conquer or exterminate.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Conservative estimates place the number of confederate soldiers from slave holding families at 30%-35%. Tha leaves 65%-70% of an army of 880,000 to 1,000,000 who had little to gain from slavery and perhaps much to loose. Slavery depressed wages much like illegal immigration depresses wages today. These men were fighting for something else.

What he said. (shudders)

Also there were an estimated 50,000 black confederate solders. What were they fighting for?

I am not giving excuses for slavery. I'm not insinuating it was right. What I am saying is fact.
Because they were fighting for there home also. They worked as teamsters, laborers, and even soldiers.

[Jimbuna]

This year the UK are celebrating the 200th anniversary of the abolition of slavery

[Heibges]

Eisenhauer, I believe, was responsible for nearly 1 million German's starving to death in the Winter of 1945/1946.

I don't think there were any good guys in wwii. But there were honorable career soldiers and sailors, like Ray Spruance who argued against the bombing of German and Japanese cities. People who were protecting their job security more than their country, like Curtis LeMay, were for it.

The real losers in WWII, were the folks of Central and South America, the Middle East, and Asia.

[peterloo]

IMO war crimes do happen in war, due to the over-excited and over-pressured soldiers fighting in a deadly war. Thus, German and Soviet always treats their POW in a poor rate, resulting in high death rate in the camps

I believe that Soviet, German, Japan has commited serious war-crimes, but it does not represent that

(1) Allied is free from war crimes (there are some reletive "minor" one)
(2) All the combantants in Soviet, German, Japan in World War II are evil and be blamed

Soviet - mistreatment of German POW, killed and raped Germans after WWII as they are angry about that war ...
Germany - mistreatment of Soviet POW, razed serval villages in vengeance of the presence of sabotages behind front line, the masscare of Jews, ...
Japan - As a Chinese... =( Nanking Masscare + Unit 571 <=Unit 571 is protected by USA from trials in order to get the experimental data
Again, numberous villages had been demolished for retaliation of the guerilla force
They also mistreat Allied POWs...

In conclusion, almost every side commited horrible war-crimes. However, not all combatants are evil. There are still many patriotic guys like Donitz, Rommel, or Yamamoto, who just hope to make their country stronger. I do think that these guys make up the bulk of the force. Unfortunately, there are some "black-horses" who loves to do something against humanity, and unfortunatly, these horses are remembered by us, but not the "white" ones

(p.s. Black horse IS NOT a racial discrimiant OR analogy to anybody except those evil soldiers)

[joea]

Originally Posted by Heibges

Eisenhauer, I believe, was responsible for nearly 1 million German's starving to death in the Winter of 1945/1946.

I don't think there were any good guys in wwii. But there were honorable career soldiers and sailors, like Ray Spruance who argued against the bombing of German and Japanese cities. People who were protecting their job security more than their country, like Curtis LeMay, were for it.

The real losers in WWII, were the folks of Central and South America, the Middle East, and Asia.

Your first paragraph is wrong, that thesis has been disproven: http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/b/...brose-001.html

Agree with the last. Disagree sort of with the second.

I disagree strongly with Swede's downplaying of Axis and Nazi crimes.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Conservative estimates place the number of confederate soldiers from slave holding families at 30%-35%. Tha leaves 65%-70% of an army of 880,000 to 1,000,000 who had little to gain from slavery and perhaps much to loose. Slavery depressed wages much like illegal immigration depresses wages today. These men were fighting for something else.

Also there were an estimated 50,000 black confederate solders. What were they fighting for?

Yes, the confederate soldier fought for the right of his state to succeed from the Union. Of course, that state suceeded over representation in congress for slave-holding terrirories and states. Accordingly, the average confederate soldier did not posses slaves, but, in effect, fought to preserve the south's slavery-based economy. As such, slavery was the root cause of the American Civil War, as it was the issue that singlularly drove the states' rights movement.

The 50,000 black confederate soldiers fought for their freedom. They were promised citizenship at the war's end.

[TteFAboB]

Nepal.

[HMCS]

Nazi Germany, obviously....

Why is this question even being asked?

The Nazis never hid their intentions, and went about it with a fair degree of enthusiasm. It's really a pity that they didn't last for another 8 months to a year. We could have dropped the A-Bomb on them instead.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by HMCS

It's really a pity that they didn't last for another 8 months to a year. We could have dropped the A-Bomb on them instead.

I would rephrase that to read:

"It's really a pity that we didn't produce the A-bomb much sooner. We could have dropped the A-Bomb on them instead."

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I would rephrase that to read:

"It's really a pity that we didn't produce the A-bomb much sooner. We could have dropped the A-Bomb on them instead."

Thats a better phrase.

[HMCS]

Thank you...yes. It was 3:30 am and I had just returned from patrol, and some Becks had been consumed. Grammar suffered.

Mistakes were made....

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I would rephrase that to read:

"It's really a pity that we didn't produce the A-bomb much sooner. We could have dropped the A-Bomb on them instead."

I could only expect such barbaric wishes from a jew and an american...

[Smaragdadler]

Has nothing to do with nationality, sky is blue everywhere...

...The suggestion at this point is that by late 1944, Waffen-SS scientists in Germany had developed a catalyst or reagent, apparently a waxy substance, maybe a plasmoid of some kind, which when added to a conventional explosive containing liquid air vastly magnified the effect, killing everything within a three mile radius by blast, tremendous heat and suffocation. It appears also to have had undesirable meteorological effects.
On April 16, 1945 the Type XB submarine U-234 (KL Fehler) departed Kristiansand, Norway for Japan direct. She had loaded at Kiel in January and February, and besides a strategic cargo in the region of 260 tonnes carried ten German and two Japanese passengers, all of whom were specialists in the military field or scientists.


On May 17, 1945, against his express orders, Kptlt. Fehler decided to surrender his submarine to the US Navy, and arrived two days later at Portsmouth Navy Yard, New Hampshire.
What is principally of interest is the cargo, and in particular ten cases of "uranium oxide" of 560 kilograms weight, and several items which were not included on the Unloading Manifest.
The Unloading Manifest (US NAT Arch, College Park MD, Box RG38, Box 13, Document OP-20-3-G1-A (Unloading Manifest) dated May 24, 1945) is a falsified document purporting to show the entire cargo aboard U-234. The true Manifests, both American and German, have never been declassified. In the normal course of events, a Manifest upon declassification would bear the censor's deletions where it was intended that certain items should not be displayed. The USN alleged Unloading Manifest is clean of any deletions and purports to be the true Unloading Manifest. From a declassified cable, it is evident that 80 cases of Uranium Powder have been omitted, as was also, from the statements of the U-boat crew members and Kptlt. Fehler, a two-seater Me 262 bomber aircraft brought from Rechlin and stowed in its component parts.
Germany had 1,200 tonnes of uranium oxide on hand at Oolen in Belgium throughout the war, but made no strides towards making an atom bomb. Nevertheless, many commentators fantasize an embryonic atom bomb in the 560 kilos of "uranium oxide" aboard U-234. It is a fantasy, for such evidence as exists points to this being a cover word for something else.
Two official documents address the ten cases of "uranium oxide" directly.
a. A report headed "Regarding 'URANIUM OXIDE' and other CARGO aboard U-234" on the interrogation of Geschwaderrichter Kay Nieschling, U-234 passenger by USN Intelligence Officer Lt Best states that "Lt Pfaff was the man responsible for loading the U-boat" and that "the meaning behind the ore" - peculiar phrase suggesting that the ore was not the ore - would be known by Kptlt. Falk (or Falck) who took some secret courses before he boarded the U-boat. Kptlt. Fehler should also know something about the ore."
It does not appear that Kptlt. Falk or Falck survived his interrogation, for there is no record of his return to Germany, and the US authorities have not been able to account for his movements in their custody after interrogating him on May 26, 1945. There are other indications that the "uranium ore" was extraordinary. Lt. Col. John Lansdale, chief of security for the Manhattan Project, wrote in a 1996 newspaper article published in Britain and Germany that he had personally handled the disposal of the ten cases. He stated that the American military authorities "reacted with panic" when they learned what the cases contained.
b. The second document was found by researcher Joseph Mark Scalia, a former 12-year US Navy man, during a rummage through old boxes at the Portsmouth Navy Yard. It is a secret cable from CNO to NYPORT on the subject "MINE TUBES, UNLOADING OF" and states:
"Interrogation Lt. Pfaff IIWO U-234 discloses he was in charge of cargo and personally supervised loading all mine tubes. Pfaff prepared Manifest List and knows kind cargo in each tube. Uranium Oxide loaded in gold-lined cylinders and as long as cylinders not opened can be handled like crude TNT. These containers should not be opened as substance will become sensitive and dangerous..."
The so-called "Uranium Oxide" would become sensitive and dangerous if exposed to air. The so-called "Uranium Oxide" was perfectly safe in its cylinders provided one respected it as one would dynamite. The so-called "Uranium Oxide" was sealed in a cylinder lined with gold.
In nuclear physics gold is used to absorb fission fragments plus gamma rays in containers, and is particularly efficient at capturing neutron radiation as well. From this it is evident that the material in the ten cylinders was not just highly radioactive - it was extraordinarily dangerous and behaving as if it were itself a nuclear reactor. No atomic physicist who has examined the evidence about these ten cases has been able to deliver an opinion as to what substance kept within a lead case might have required these extraordinary precautions.
On May 24, 1945, when the US Navy began to unload U-234, it is clear from the US State papers that no decision regarding the atom bomb had been taken by the US government. On May 30, 1945, both Secretary of State Stimson and President Truman were agreed that no alternative existed to deploying America's atomic arsenal against Japan.
They had no alternative to using the atom bomb, and no satisfactory reason has ever been forthcoming why that decision was made. So what could have caused these two decent men to decide that such a course of action was unavoidable?
What was aboard U-234 might also be aboard other Japan-bound U-boats. The Japanese had at least two submarines with a range of 30,000 miles, that were capable of being used as aircraft launchers. The Japanese had a plan of mixing the uranium from U-234 with standard explosives, and loading them in bombs or planes which were to take off the submarines and attack San Francisco. The target date was August 1945; they were ready, only waiting for the shipment of uranium to arrive.
That would make no sense unless the "uranium" from U-234 was the waxy substance which when mixed with conventional explosives turned the material into the miracle weapon. These two Japanese submarines would be very close to San Francisco, and the pilots of the bomber aircraft would have to be kamikazes, for proximity to the waxy substance meant certain death.
If the Japanese were indeed in the process of being supplied with this material by German U-boats for use against the United States west coast, then this was the reason for the nuclear attacks against Japan. ...

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