Hiroshima

[w-subcommander]

from AWSnut101 "You as an American are pathetic. Do you mind me stabbing an American flag on a sharpened pole through your heart and pinning you to the ground?"

Do your best. I think you love Patriotic Act.
I m grateful to America for everything it done for me.Including saving life of my father(surgery). It s a wonderful country with wonderfull people. I ll protect it against any enemy that will invide. But it is not the BEST in the world!!!!!!!!!!! This option is not exist!!!There is no such best stuff!!!
If you love your country - right it is the best for you, but inside , in heart.
USA has its good side and bad side! Patriotism is to love the country with all its best and worse stuff. And to be patriot doesnt mean to be blind or have hearing problems.
PUBLIC LOVE reminds me PORNOGRAPHY! I prefer to love privately like my nephew serving in Army( and he understands what real patriotism is).
"BEST in the WORLD" is good for commercial!!!!
"God bless America and noone else" ???
If you are American be an American, one of the greatest american achievements is tolerance to others opinions.

[Takeda Shingen]

Is it necessary to call each other names and threaten people with impalement when discussing topics on SubSim? No? I thought not. So let's not do that.

Thank you,
The Management

[w-subcommander]

Funny a lot of russians on russian forums called me "antirussian & proamerican " Some americans do the same "antiamerican" etc.
The is no prophets in own country LOL

[STEED]

The Island hopping campaign was very costly for the Americans and the powers at the time saw the invasion of Japan could very well be another Berlin, so they opted to use the Atomic bomb for better or worst that decision was no easy decision to take.

[micky1up]

Originally Posted by Letum

You can not save lives by boming people!

You can save lives by not bombing people and not invadeing Japan!

you havent a clue what your saying with the kamakazi mentality that every veteran will tell you about an invasion would have cost millions thats a fact every island taken cost thousands and where defended fanatically the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the few

[Letum]

Originally Posted by micky1up

you havent a clue what your saying with the kamakazi mentality that every veteran will tell you about an invasion would have cost millions thats a fact every island taken cost thousands and where defended fanatically the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the few

With respect, I know what I am saying, but I think you have misread what I wrote.

An invasion would have been out of the question.

Read what I wrote very carefuly!

[Skybird]

Letum is right in so far that the world in the 20th century would have been a more peaceful and less cruel place if only Hitler and Stalin and MaoTseTung wouldn't have popped up (beside a number of others) and decided to play foul. But they did, so... so what, Letum...!? :hmm:

That in times of war there is war, is because war means the absence of peace. In war it is not as peaceful as during peace, since during peace there is less war, and more peace. Logical, right?

Reason is a nice thing to settle disputes - but oinly if the other is of the same willingness to use reason. If he is not, unfortunately he has the ability to screw up the match for all players by that. then you either raise and leave the table to him, which means it is game over for you, or you stay and kick him out if he doesn't follow the game's rules. It is enough to send one Chamberlain in a good-willing attempt. Absolutely no use and no reason in sending him twice. And sometimes, even the first one attempt already is costly enough.

[ASWnut101]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Is it necessary to call each other names and threaten people with impalement when discussing topics on SubSim? No? I thought not. So let's not do that.

Thank you,
The Management

Yes, I'm sorry. I was pretty mad at that time of the day (the bank ripped me off).


Apologies, w-subcommander.

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by w-subcommander

My point is what done is done. But Truman belongs to jail. It coul be his price for saving Americans lives and killing civilians. He had my respect as a greatest leader if he went to jail by his own will.

Japan attacked Darwin, a city in the north of my country before the allies started bombing Japanese cities. Manufacturing factories and ammunition depots were located in Japanese cities and needed to be destroyed.

By your logic Churchill should have been locked up in jail for bombing German cities.

And let's bring say Russia into the picture, why was it that Germans tried to surrender to Brits and Yanks over the Ruskies? Times were differant. What needed to be done was done. Saying Truman should have gone to gaol is idiocy.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Letum is right in so far that the world in the 20th century would have been a more peaceful and less cruel place if only Hitler and Stalin and MaoTseTung wouldn't have popped up (beside a number of others) and decided to play foul.

I wonder if they had never existed whether others would just have taken their place.

[Ishmael]

I've been busy preparing for the Randi Rhodes Air America Alaska Cruise we're leaving on Friday. I apologize for not commenting on this thread on Aug. 6 itself but I'm doing so now. First of all, here is the wiki link for Operation Downfall, the Allied Invasion of Japan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_downfall

I direct you to the specific section dealing with Kestugo Sakusen, the Japanese defensive plans. To those who think negotiations were working, I direct you to the Japanese High command's decision to fully mobilize the entire Japanese population for defense. Also remember that the Emperor was a God and obedience was a sacred duty to the Japanese people. The Japanese terms included continuity of the entire wartime government and possession of captured territories gained by aggressive war.
These terms could never be accepted.

If you read the link on the Japanese defense plans, you'll see they had 10,000 kamikaze planes held in reserve to specifically target troop ships including Ohka rocket bombs and jet aircraft being built with German jet technology. Also remember that the Soviet Union had entered the war with Japan and had plans to invade Hokkaido on August 15, 1945.

Had the bombs not been used, the invasion force would have faced daunting, fanatical odds as the Japanese fought harder the closer you got to the home islands. Put yourself in Truman's shoes at the time. What would have been the result of an invasion disaster if it became known that he had a weapon that could have ended it early but did not use it?

Now I have a nuclear weapons background and have participated in NWAI's(Nuclear Weapons Acceptance Inspections) needed for nuclear capable certification, annual NTPIs(Nuclear Technical Proficiency Inspections) and TSIs(Technical Surprise Inspections). I have also walked the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki during that time. I concur with Truman's decision and believe to this day that, by shortening the war, it saved Allied and Japanese lives in toto and saved the overall sovereignty of the Japanese nation. Had Hokkaido been occupied by the Soviets, do we seriously believe they would have relenquished that occupation?

I said prayers and burned joss sticks for the souls of the dead yesterday and will do so again on Thursday for Nagasaki.

So in closing, here is my poem that deals with my feelings on the matter:

Mushotoku
By Richard Scott

The essence of One Cut, We climbed Mt. Niitaka,
That bright December morning on the East Wind Rain.
Crying, “Asia for Asians!”, we floated out of the sky over the harbor of pearls,
Like cherry blossom petals on the Kamikaze,
To slay the sleeping giant, honor our Emperor and our ancestors.
We ran wild over the Pacific for a year,
But Asia for the Japanese was not just.
For we had only awakened the giant,
Filling him with a terrible resolve.
Our Chiburi, blood falling like rain,
Was scattered across the jungles and atolls of the Pacific,
Leaving a trail for him to follow,
Back to the home islands.
We honored our Emperor and our ancestors,
But the giant brought with him the Whirlwind,
That burned shadows into the walls of Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
And changed the Divine Showa into a human being.

Mushotoku
By Richard Scott
© 1990 all rights reserved

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by August

I wonder if they had never existed whether others would just have taken their place.

MaoTseTung - Zhu De
Stalin - Lenin
Hitler - Nobody. Without him Nazi Germany wouldn't have been.

[August]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

MaoTseTung - Zhu De
Stalin - Lenin
Hitler - Nobody. Without him Nazi Germany wouldn't have been.

Hitler didn't create the nazi party though.

[w-subcommander]

Originally Posted by Reaves

Japan attacked Darwin, a city in the north of my country before the allies started bombing Japanese cities. Manufacturing factories and ammunition depots were located in Japanese cities and needed to be destroyed.

By your logic Churchill should have been locked up in jail for bombing German cities.

And let's bring say Russia into the picture, why was it that Germans tried to surrender to Brits and Yanks over the Ruskies? Times were differant. What needed to be done was done. Saying Truman should have gone to gaol is idiocy.

Did You even tried to read my post??????????
I was talking about moral responsibility...
Or you still see the world in black & white perspective? Idiocracy? I dont mind at all. Mr. Churchill has my respect anyway as a great politician. Mr. Truman I dont know... Eisenhauer did much more.
Germans were afraid of russkie because they killed over 9( in another statistic 6) millions of Soviet Union citizens and they knew that revenge is closing. And it was bloody revenge and there are nothing to be proud of. And of couse Fear of communists/bosheviks.
I was just trying to look at the topic from point of view of idealism. If you didnt get it.... Moral relativity is good stuff too.
Strange that you taking my opinion so personal.

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by w-subcommander

Did You even tried to read my post??????????
I was talking about moral responsibility...
Or you still see the world in black & white perspective? Idiocracy? I dont mind at all. Mr. Churchill has my respect anyway as a great politician. Mr. Truman I dont know... Eisenhauer did much more.
Germans were afraid of russkie because they killed over 9( in another statistic 6) millions of Soviet Union citizens and they knew that revenge is closing. And it was bloody revenge and there are nothing to be proud of. And of couse Fear of communists/bosheviks.
I was just trying to look at the topic from point of view of idealism. If you didnt get it.... Moral relativity is good stuff too.
Strange that you taking my opinion so personal.

Yes I did read your post, did you read mine?

You said Truman should have been imprisoned for killing civilians. Well my response was that Churchill was the first to initiate full scale city bombing. This was in response to a bomb dropped on London by accident by a German bomber. Therefore Churchill is responsible for many civilian deaths as well. Is it differant because one bomb was bigger?