Hiroshima

[w-subcommander]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

[quote I (as an American ) am ashamed looking at idiots who are proclaming that we live in the best country in the world! It is good for internal propaganda, but when they declare it outside the country .... LOL:rotfl:

I wonder why your country is the only country in the world that has a lotto on a green card? Why also, are there millions amd millions of people who would give their life (boat people, Mexicans etc, etc) to have a life in the USA. Do not take what you have for granted, do you want to exchange citizenship with a Zimbabwean? Be thankful for what you have got.[/quote]

I m grateful to America for everything it done for me. It s a wonderful country with wonderfull people. I ll protect it against any enemy that will invide. But it is not the BEST in the world!!!!!!!!!!! It has its good side and bad side! Patriotism is to love the country with all its best and worse stuff. And to be patriot doesnt mean to be blind or have hearing problems. Did you ever read Patriotic Act?
And I quote myself:
My point is what done is done. But Truman belongs to jail. It coul be his price for saving Americans lives and killing civilians. He had my respect as a greatest leader if he went to jail by his own will.

BEST can mean:
1) is Perfection /or
2) is most outstanding or excellent

[w-subcommander]

I have 27 years experience living in Europe
I have 9 years experience living in USA.
I visited about 30 countries in the world, when I was a seaman.
Definition of culture is different in Europeans mind and Americans mind.
I just made a quote that seems to me very interesting point of view.
Again I do not make a statement what is better or worser. Remember Einstein?
His theories?

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by w-subcommander

My point is what done is done. But Truman belongs to jail. It coul be his price for saving Americans lives and killing civilians. He had my respect as a greatest leader if he went to jail by his own will.

Japan attacked Darwin, a city in the north of my country before the allies started bombing Japanese cities. Manufacturing factories and ammunition depots were located in Japanese cities and needed to be destroyed.

By your logic Churchill should have been locked up in jail for bombing German cities.

And let's bring say Russia into the picture, why was it that Germans tried to surrender to Brits and Yanks over the Ruskies? Times were differant. What needed to be done was done. Saying Truman should have gone to gaol is idiocy.

[w-subcommander]

Originally Posted by Reaves

Japan attacked Darwin, a city in the north of my country before the allies started bombing Japanese cities. Manufacturing factories and ammunition depots were located in Japanese cities and needed to be destroyed.

By your logic Churchill should have been locked up in jail for bombing German cities.

And let's bring say Russia into the picture, why was it that Germans tried to surrender to Brits and Yanks over the Ruskies? Times were differant. What needed to be done was done. Saying Truman should have gone to gaol is idiocy.

Did You even tried to read my post??????????
I was talking about moral responsibility...
Or you still see the world in black & white perspective? Idiocracy? I dont mind at all. Mr. Churchill has my respect anyway as a great politician. Mr. Truman I dont know... Eisenhauer did much more.
Germans were afraid of russkie because they killed over 9( in another statistic 6) millions of Soviet Union citizens and they knew that revenge is closing. And it was bloody revenge and there are nothing to be proud of. And of couse Fear of communists/bosheviks.
I was just trying to look at the topic from point of view of idealism. If you didnt get it.... Moral relativity is good stuff too.
Strange that you taking my opinion so personal.

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by w-subcommander

Did You even tried to read my post??????????
I was talking about moral responsibility...
Or you still see the world in black & white perspective? Idiocracy? I dont mind at all. Mr. Churchill has my respect anyway as a great politician. Mr. Truman I dont know... Eisenhauer did much more.
Germans were afraid of russkie because they killed over 9( in another statistic 6) millions of Soviet Union citizens and they knew that revenge is closing. And it was bloody revenge and there are nothing to be proud of. And of couse Fear of communists/bosheviks.
I was just trying to look at the topic from point of view of idealism. If you didnt get it.... Moral relativity is good stuff too.
Strange that you taking my opinion so personal.

Yes I did read your post, did you read mine?

You said Truman should have been imprisoned for killing civilians. Well my response was that Churchill was the first to initiate full scale city bombing. This was in response to a bomb dropped on London by accident by a German bomber. Therefore Churchill is responsible for many civilian deaths as well. Is it differant because one bomb was bigger?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Reaves

You said Truman should have been imprisoned for killing civilians. Well my response was that Churchill was the first to initiate full scale city bombing. This was in response to a bomb dropped on London by accident by a German bomber. Therefore Churchill is responsible for many civilian deaths as well. Is it differant because one bomb was bigger?

I think he already said Churchill should go to jail too.

What w-subcommander clearly subscribes to is deontological ethics, where everything is compared to an absolute rulebook- there are certain recommendations in creating that rulebook, such as "Imagine if everyone did your action, would that be good". So lying and killing are clearly bad. But the important thing is that the rulebook is absolute.

Once engraved in the rulebook, it cannot be broken for any reason, no matter what the utilitarian gain. If you are a hardcore deontologist, you won't lie to save a friend from a murderer, so by that standard, whatever the correct amount of people saved overall is, killing is wrong so the dropping of the A-bomb is wrong.

[w-subcommander]

08-08-2007, 01:49 AM #76 Kazuaki
DOMO! Arigato. Thank you. I m in debt.
Exactly my point!!!
Unfortunately my English still is not so perfect to make deep responses. Thank you again for helping me out.
PS if I right remember one of the main deontologists was Immanuil Kant?

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by w-subcommander

08-08-2007, 01:49 AM #76 Kazuaki
DOMO! Arigato. Thank you. I m in debt.
Exactly my point!!!
Unfortunately my English still is not so perfect to make deep responses. Thank you again for helping me out.
PS if I right remember one of the main deontologists was Immanuil Kant?

I understand what you are saying but I don't know WHY you would believe it?

Are you serious that if country A was attacked by country B and all of country B's weapons were stored in a major city, country A is not allowed to bomb that city? That is folley and will lead to the country who holds these high morals (as theoretically righteous they are) to be destroyed.

In a perfect world your way of thinking would work and there would be no victims of war. But in a perfect world, war would not exist.

I'm sorry but I just think that you saying Truman should have been imprisoned is short sighted and ignoring the realities of war.
If someone is trying to kill you, you kill them. There is a saying that I feel states my point of view.

"THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUT-WEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE FEW"

As much as I hope an atomic bomb/nuclear weapon is never used again, I am more concerned about a World War 3. No one deserves to die, but sometimes the alternatives are a worse option. Which I believe an invasion of Japan would have been. They fought with honour and bravery. Unfortunately they were governed by a person who considered himself godly and used his peoples loyalty and lives to keep himself in power.