[REL] Trigger Maru 1.7.6 (Updated 24Jan08)

[Torpex752]

Ducimus,
I was wondering, is there a way to lower the tonnage amount sunk required to complete the campaign objectives? I'm not complaining at all, TM is absolutely AWESOME you've done a fantastic job. It seems to me that in order to help realism a tad, reducing this amount to say the tonnage of the smallest ship would enable players to keep the "Hunt for mass tonnage" to a minimum. Just a request if/when you get a chance. I know you are busy as heck and need to play SH4! LOL

Frank "Torpex" Kulick
Subsim Staff

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Seeadler

With TM installed, some single missions (e.g. Against all Odds) crashes to desktop during the load process.

Confrimed. SM07 and SM08 both CTD. The reason i beleive is that some of the units are changed in type in Tater's campaign mod. So the singlemission itself, is in effect, calling on unit types that no longer exist, so it decides to quit once it can't find them. For example the subchaser is changed from a patrol craft to a frigate. The map expects a patrol craft, and its not finding it. I just tried changing the unit type and no joy, i suspect theres more going on in those missions, and the subchaser is only half the problem.

Originally Posted by Torpex752

Ducimus,
I was wondering, is there a way to lower the tonnage amount sunk required to complete the campaign objectives? I'm not complaining at all, TM is absolutely AWESOME you've done a fantastic job. It seems to me that in order to help realism a tad, reducing this amount to say the tonnage of the smallest ship would enable players to keep the "Hunt for mass tonnage" to a minimum. Just a request if/when you get a chance. I know you are busy as heck and need to play SH4! LOL

Frank "Torpex" Kulick
Subsim Staff

Good call. The tonnage on this sink missions is 10,000 tons! I didnt realize that until i looked at it a few mins ago. Yeah, i think i might drop that to say.... i dunno 1500 to 2000 tons. Im thinking 2000.

edit:

As an aside, after sleeping on it, ive decided that other then the MINOR elevation adjustments ive made in 1.5, im returning the sim.cfg in hydrohpones and sonar back to stock settings. From what ive read, too many people have issues with just the stock AI (of which i'm entirely unimpressed with, so i just don't understand that at all), so im just giving up it. Too touchy an issue, and since 1.5 is going to be my final push, the AI may as well be what it may.

[switch.dota]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

As an aside, after sleeping on it, ive decided that other then the MINOR elevation adjustments ive made in 1.5, im returning the sim.cfg in hydrohpones and sonar back to stock settings. From what ive read, too many people have issues with just the stock AI (of which i'm entirely unimpressed with, so i just don't understand that at all), so im just giving up it. Too touchy an issue, and since 1.5 is going to be my final push, the AI may as well be what it may.

Please add your modded file as an optional mod. Some of us don';t find TM 1.4 AI impossible. Just difficult, not unbeatable.

[tater]

The 2 single missions are indeed the subchaser and minesweeper set wrong. I wonder if the other problme might be the fact that one has agano set to a 1938 configuration, but she doesn't exist until 1942?

[tater]

I will pay attention to what you are doing campaign wise. If you add any... novelties... make them as separate missions, and let me know about them. As I update my campaign, I can always make a TM version that doesn't screw with the stuff you have modded, and I can make a copy of my campaign.cfg and make sure any additional missions are in it (I've doen this with BP already for my current internal build).

That way if you stop after 1.5, I can still fix my campaign, its really a WIP, not where I want it to ultimately be.

tater

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by switch.dota

Please add your modded file as an optional mod. Some of us don';t find TM 1.4 AI impossible. Just difficult, not unbeatable.

I second that request.

[Torpex752]

Originally Posted by switch.dota

Please add your modded file as an optional mod. Some of us don';t find TM 1.4 AI impossible. Just difficult, not unbeatable.

I concur....although its tough, it makes up for other areas the game is lacking.

Frank "Torpex" Kulick
Subsim Staff

[Ducimus]

RE: ahead 1/3rd,

You know you can manually set your speed to 1 kt, or even 0 kts and still have a rotation on your screws to keep forward momentum. I get the impression not everyone realizes this.

RE: for those who want the harder AI.
You want current settings or just a *tad* toned down? If i town them down, all i'll be doing is changing the max elevation on the sonar to a shallower elevation.

RE: sink missions,
yes i know, ill be changing those to 2,000 tons instead of the default 10,000.

[Ducimus]

Everyone should read this post by rockin robbins:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=235

This is how to handle the AI in this mod, its how i always intended it. If you think you can just go below a layer, hit silent running and be safe in a psudo klingon cloaking, you got another thing coming. Skipper the boat, its not a pleasure cruise where you stand idley by playing shuffleboard waiting for the DC's to stop.

[Fearless]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Everyone should read this post by rockin robbins:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=235

This is how to handle the AI in this mod, its how i always intended it. If you think you can just go below a layer, hit silent running and be safe in a psudo klingon cloaking, you got another thing coming. Skipper the boat, its not a pleasure cruise where you stand idley by playing shuffleboard waiting for the DC's to stop.

Spot on Ducimus

[theluckyone17]

ARGH!!!

As much as I hate the excessively good AI in TM, I can't go back to RFB. RFB may be more historically correct, AI wise, but I'd feel like a wimp bailing out on TM.

It's not like TM didn't have stupid escorts, too... I managed to sneak in front of a task force and sink a Kongo then escape without breaking a sweat, on two different occasions. That's twice. Not just once, but twice. Count 'em. Two -> .

I totally vented in another post... I've got a sneaking suspicion that I gave up too early (since I was using just about same tactics as Rockin Robbins was, excepting the short burst of flank speed due to the presence of the second hostile). I also have a feeling the two hostiles were of good or better quality... hence the length of time required to get away from 'em. That. and the perfect water conditions (dead calm), providing great sonar results.

Don't get me wrong, I really wouldn't mind having the elevation shaved a bit, but don't touch anything else. I like this challenge.

On the other hand, I wonder if we couldn't make this a bit more "historical" simply by dumbing down most (not all, just most) of the Jap warships prior to '43 (or whatever date the real Jap's started getting a clue to what ASW is all about), then kick 'em up a bit.

Or simply tweaking the amount of escorts back to historical levels...

I want to keep myself guessing, on my toes... I don't want it to be a cake walk, but I don't want to be able to walk in, fish flying, and expect to just walk out again without fear of reprisal. I want to know that I can probably get out alright, but not so sure of myself that I'm going to place myself into dangerous situations. If that makes any sense.

Either way, I'm gonna stick with TM. *helpless shrug, mutter about masochistic depraved tendencies, hope the wife doesn't find out...*

[Palidian]

I believe you are confusing AI and detecting ability.

Making the DDs use better tactics, and cooperate together better would be improving the AI. Simply making it easer to detect you, dose not effect how they chase you around.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

RE: ahead 1/3rd,

You know you can manually set your speed to 1 kt, or even 0 kts and still have a rotation on your screws to keep forward momentum. I get the impression not everyone realizes this.

RE: for those who want the harder AI.
You want current settings or just a *tad* toned down? If i town them down, all i'll be doing is changing the max elevation on the sonar to a shallower elevation.

RE: sink missions,
yes i know, ill be changing those to 2,000 tons instead of the default 10,000.

[tater]

You are confusing what is possible to mod, and what is not.

AI behavior is a combination of hard coded stuff that is a black box to us, some cfg settings that are specifically behavior modifications (time to remain looking before they break off, etc---very few of these), and detections as it informs AI "decision making."

The AI behavior is very much driven by the arbitrary set up of the detection parameters. Sure, the down angle of a sonar might be a fact we could possibly research, or even the connection between surface area and detection probability, but the "sensitivity" setting? It's made up. Many of the setting are for tweaking the AI since thei behaviors are hard coded to react a certain way to certain stimuli. The detection rules define the stimuli. It's our only way to mod the AI behavior.

tater

[Archie]

OK, running TM 1.4 and some of Foo's high res skins, last night placed the mod 1.5x stronger torps into the game thru JSGME to make damage decals show, then today every torp and deck gun round passes straight thru the Maru's!!?! I even tried to ram one (just to see) and guess what, the sub went straight thru the dang ship like it was not even there!!!! So, of course I uninstalled torp mod 1.5x stronger using disable function in JSGME, restarted the game and.... wait for it, torps and deck gun shells go straight thru the model...... The free camera also goes straight thru the ship models instead of being 'pushed' out of the way as usual..... I also disabled TM1.4 and its associated graphics pack and then reinstalled them, but, no luck...

Any suggestions beside the obvious?

[Rockin Robbins]

Arrrrrrrrrrr! Gave em the slip. Hey, next time a Zero crashes in your neighborhood, can you get me one of those Mitsubishi tachs? Oh yeah, I couldn't use it anyway because I left my metric screwdriver in Pearl. Guess I'm stuck with these Oldsmobile tachometers. I couldn't read metric RPM or whatever they use anyway. I was onboard one of those Limey subs and their tachs said "REVS." Keep me away from those things too.

OK, I'm up here on the surface taking a shower again. Radar says Superpoop is a mile away and not moving. It's mighty tempting to go see what I can do with him but I have a shade over 15,000 tons and 8 stern torps left, one in tube 1 up front. I have half a tank of diesel. "Mass tonnage" will never come up when talking about this cruise. Seems to me the uber-AI results in much more realistic tonnage per patrol. Of course you could cheat and return to Midway for refits to extend it. In R/L Admiral Lockwood would have something to say about that.

No sign of any tractor beams or phazers. The destroyers can be dealt with and survival is not that difficult for me. Of course I'm trained on GWX where there are no thermal layers and the U-Boats are slower running silent at 1 kt instead of the American Gato's 2 kt at quietest speed. I'm not going to change a thing because I'm just having too much fun. I'd say if you're getting killed too much you ought to work on your tactics.

Remember, when the destroyer is pinging, he's not listening. Pinging is your signal to hit the throttle and maneuver yourself quickly to a new hidey spot at a different depth and get back to silent running. Pinging does not mean he necessarily knows where you are, either. Inaction is fatal here. Keep twisting. Vary depths with the realization that deeper is better most of the time.

When the charges hit the water, remember his stern is now facing you. Do a radical turn and hit the throttle because you're in the clear for a bit. If he's on top of you dropping ashcans and you sit there, your patrol is over. He can't hear you, he can't ping you right now. Hit the jets and get out of there. After a short spurt, go back to silent running again.

If there are two or more destroyers you can be sure that at least one is always backed away listening. That means much shorter bursts of power reluctantly used only when survival is in the balance. Stay deep, quiet and zigzag like the drunken sailor you are in Pearl. Your goal is to put both destroyers back of bearings 135/225 and the angles progressing toward 180, showing you are leaving them safely astern.

Remember you are moving. When the bearing to the destroyer stays the same, that means you would be on a collision course if you were on the surface. In this case it means that he is either moving straight away from you or is going to pass right overhead. There's a freight train a'comin'. Try to change course to see if his bearing then begins to change, showing he will pass ahead or astern. If the bearing does not change, he's following your turn. Then you have to time the drop and run out from under it as the ashcans fall.

Ducimus, you're the expert! Anything to add? Am I making you want to get out here? I can tell you one thing. RFB is gonna have to wait. This is too much fun.