[tec] AI settings in TM 1.4

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Jace11

What determines whether a destroyer uses active sonar or passive?

If he's at distance, passive obviously. Once hes on you, truthfully i don't know. My assumption has always been whichever one is recieving a signal.

Heres a big guess .. i mean.. i a wild stab in the dark in psuedocode.

ActiveContact = In sonar cone, with X amout of surface area visible, for Y seconds.


If NoActiveContact
then Listen

If HaveActiveContact
then Ping
else Listen

Only one who can say for sure is the developers. Everything i know, is what was learned from Sh3 from various sources and own observations.

[Jace11]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

If he's at distance, passive obviously. Once hes on you, truthfully i don't know. My assumption has always been whichever one is recieving a signal.

Heres a big guess .. i mean.. i a wild stab in the dark in psuedocode.

ActiveContact = In sonar cone, with X amout of surface area visible, for Y seconds.


If NoActiveContact
then Listen

If HaveActiveContact
then Ping
else Listen

Only one who can say for sure is the developers. Everything i know, is what was learned from Sh3 from various sources and own observations.

That sounds quite sensible.

[Bando]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Heres a big guess .. i mean.. i a wild stab in the dark in psuedocode.

ActiveContact = In sonar cone, with X amout of surface area visible, for Y seconds.

If NoActiveContact
then Listen

If HaveActiveContact
then Ping
else Listen

If your guess is right, would it be save to say that when you hear them pinging, it automatically means you're detected. Pinging is not searching but localising.
Is this correct in your opinion?

[Ducimus]

the japanese never really had a functional equivalent of the british q system. the type 193 was the searchlight system they started the war with, and the type 3 was basically a copy of the german s-gerat active sonar.

I was really citing the sensors as they appear in the game, with *some* historical context for perspective. Usualy when i talk tech, its about what *is*, and rarely about what acutally *was*. Now that said, i dont recall seeing the type3 sonar being used by any unit that i looked at, but it fit the "supernatural" bungo pete pretty well.

would it be save to say that when you hear them pinging, it automatically means you're detected. Pinging is not searching but localising.

This is kind of a trick answer. The AI doesn't ping without a reason. But pinging doesn neccessarly mean they know exactly where you are. So yah i guess "localising" is probably a good description. Where they acutally drop i think is a function of signal strength if the dev comments on thermal layers is any indicator. My guess is signal strength is a function of sonar sensitivity, surface area being pinged, enviormental variables, escort crew rating, thermal layer reduction, etc.

[chopped50ford]

Originally Posted by Bando

If your guess is right, would it be save to say that when you hear them pinging, it automatically means you're detected. Pinging is not searching but localising.
Is this correct in your opinion?

To put in my 2 cents;

If you hear pinging, it does not mean your detected. Its merely a search method used. Ducimus did a thread on how these work (good reading). Both Active and Passive Sonar are two different methods.

Passive = Listening; searching for sounds to place a bearing of target in search of.
Active = Pinging is used to find location of target after bearing has been "determined." The faster the ping, the closer the target is.

A way to deter the DD's? Go deep, below a Thermal layer if possible, and run silent.

[Ducimus]

On pinging i guess you could say, if hes pinging, he knows your around hes just trying to find out exactly where. You could say hes just "echo ranging" trying to get a good fix.

Now when you stand in front of him showing your broadsides to his "flashlight" beam, you sort of bypass the audio/hydrophone detection part and go straight to the echo ranging.

[Bando]

Ok, thanks

[CaptainHaplo]

Whats interesting here is how active sonar is actually modelled. While the mechanics are ok themselves for usage - the Japanese escorts equipped with active sonar usually had it echo ranging constantly - whether or not there was a sub out there... Historically, some convoys were actually "heard" and tracked due to the pinging of escorts well before they were in visual range. My guess is that this isnt modeled because the engine can only "use" one sensor at a time. However, if thats the case - does is consider the oldest "sensor" of all time to sometimes be "turned off"? That sensor is the "Mk1 eyeball". I was thinking that the visual sensor routine was always checked. Any ideas?

[Ducimus]

Visual routine, undeinably is always checked. I think the " one sensor at a time" issue for the AI resides predominatly when talking about sensors underwater. For example, sound contacts disappearing from the map when you raise your periscope (periscope seems to be tied in to visual routines somehow as you get "ship spotted" when you raise it,), or the patch 1.3 "bug" where sonar contacts would interfere with radar contacts.

[CaptainKobuk]

Perfection of AI subsearch capability difficulty is impossible, since there is always the uncontrollable variable called "player preferance". Maybe we should just perfect the balance between VERY HARD and reasonble reality. With the MOD intended from the getgo for those who want the AI searching to be VERY HARD.

I've ported all the AI "sub searching ability" files to my custom MOD SET over from TM 1.4. Just because the game could be considered in need of these files to increase the challenge.

I think TM 1.4 is truely VERY HARD in this regard. So since i like things slightly more balance towards less hard, i'm using my custom submarines and torpedoes. I guess i'm approximately increased 25% in some select areas that will balance my survival towards surviving rather than being sunk by the new boost in AI seaching abilities. Give and take.

I'm working on tested my MOD set to post as a very minor MOD for those who want a few things enhanced to use in any VERY HARD mod like TM 1,4.

Balance is always based on a set of personal gameplay style preferance. Thanks for TM 1.4 Decimus. I think i've found "perfection" in the sense of how my other MOD balance with your tough AI.

What the Japs capabilities actually were will have to be kept second to making the game the most fun. The USA is full of traitors all the time anyways, so let's just consider that another Clinton type scoundrel sold off our military secrets to the Japs this time. And like the way Standard Oil gave the Nazis our synthetic fuel secrets and artificial rubber given away by another traitor. On and on it goes.