v1.3 Patch And Japanese ASW

[Peto]

Well--probably nothing wrong but I'm not willing to join your crew just yet .

From what you said I think you might be trying to come in from DIRECTLY AHEAD of the convoy. The closest I want to come to that setup is to do a head on approach on a flank merchant of a wide convoy (say 6 columns wide). Even then I worry. A lot. Try approaching more from the quarter--that is come in from the side of the convoy more than from in front. I tend to worry more about the flanking escorts than the leader because of the way I come in. And sometimes I get lucky and the closest flanker is out a few thousand yards looking at kelp . That opens up the whole flank for me to pick on and gives me time to set up my shot.

The downside of this type of approach is it's easy to misjudge ranges and it can leave you out in left field. You have to try to time it so you come in kind of behind and to the side of the leading escort--but far enough ahead of the flanker so you can turn down the columns of merchants. It's a method that has served me well since Aces of the Deep.

If you'd like me to try to clarify my points, ask away. I'll try to help you the best I can.

Hang in there! These sims take Practice with a Capital P!!!! But the pay-off is that smug look when you finally go to bed LOL.

Cheers!

Peto

[Peto]

One more thing--Use sound. As few periscope observations as possible. And then try it with external view disabled .

[Suicide Charlie]

Originally Posted by Peto

approaching more from the quarter

ahead of the flanker so you can turn down the columns of merchants. It's a method that has served me well since Aces of the Deep.

This is a tactic that I've been trying to replicate and I've failed thus far. My problem is positioning myself in order to do that. I'm pretty sure I'm too close in when I'm still surfaced and moving to try to place myself in a good intercept postion.

Say you've been given a task force report and it's positioned say to the WNW-W of you and heading S. It's close enough that it should be possible to intercept (Say using a S-class boat. We'll go with a slow example for an extreme.). What are you're steps to move to an intercept position on those fast moving ships when they're about on the same latitude?

I think my problem is if I'm able to run a box pattern to intercept I venture too close and they spot me waaaay off.

[Jace11]

Ok, maybe I'll give 1.3 another chance. I have been heavily modding the sim.cfg, but it should have made them better not worse..

[tater]

It gets worse when you make a setup and they zig away

Course just as often I've had a decent long range quartering setup and they zag down my throat.

Actually, that's something I need to nail down with my current improved campaign before I redo the entire war and make a definitive one. I need a sense of how the AI is dealing with the course changes in zig zags. I might have to make them a-historically low angle, or longer time frame if they can't cope well. So far I have them far enough apart I don't see them happen that often (which was a choice due to those very concerns).

tater

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Ok, maybe I'll give 1.3 another chance. I have been heavily modding the sim.cfg, but it should have made them better not worse..

Don't forget the ai_sensor.dat. By default all JP active sonar (excepting Q sonar equivlant) has a very shallow max elevation. 100 on all. What this means, is its incredibly easy to get under the beam, and due to the projection of the beam, it wont be at its deepest point until its at its maximum range. Which kind of sucks because when the escort is looking for you, you won't be in that deepest portion of the beam most of the time, you'll be under it. This is why they can get a ping from a ways off, but once they get closer, the pinging stops.

Increase the max elevation by a large amount, and you'll get more pinging, but i beleive the problem then becomes making the AI escapable.

[cdrsubron7]

Peto, thanks for your help and suggestions. The point of the matter is that I have tried many different angles of approach and depths ranging from PD down to 200 ft without ever having exposed the periscope. This last time I know it was the destroyer out in front who detected me. The other couple of times I came in from the points and am not sure whether one of the flanking DD picked me up or the DD out in front. I've played SH1 for the last ten years as a member of the PTC and have played SH2 and SH3 so I really don't consider myself a novice when it comes to playing SHIV. But since I've tried playing SHIV with the 1.3 I'm really feeling out of my depth. I tried every approach I can think of and I still get detected, it's getting really fustrating.






cdrsubron7

[Peto]

Considering your experience with subsims, I can definitely understand your frustration. Now that I've been playing 1.3 for quite a few hours, I tend to agree that they've beefed up the detection ranges.

Hang in there! I'm sure more mods are on the way! I'll be looking at tuning down the Japanese Incredi-vision myself and trying to turn up their active sonar some to add challenge when they do find me.

Cheers!

Peto

[Miika]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

Peto, thanks for your help and suggestions. The point of the matter is that I have tried many different angles of approach and depths ranging from PD down to 200 ft without ever having exposed the periscope. This last time I know it was the destroyer out in front who detected me. The other couple of times I came in from the points and am not sure whether one of the flanking DD picked me up or the DD out in front. I've played SH1 for the last ten years as a member of the PTC and have played SH2 and SH3 so I really don't consider myself a novice when it comes to playing SHIV. But since I've tried playing SHIV with the 1.3 I'm really feeling out of my depth. I tried every approach I can think of and I still get detected, it's getting really fustrating.

cdrsubron7

If I remember correctly, you can tweak the detection effectiveness in the sim.cfg (in data/cfg). I too found the detection ranges etc. unrealistically high in 1.3, so I re-installed, copied the sim.cfg from the 1.0 and used it as reference with 1.3. Eventually I've been able to configure the game to be just perfect for me.

Miika

[Suicide Charlie]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

Peto, thanks for your help and suggestions. The point of the matter is that I have tried many different angles of approach and depths ranging from PD down to 200 ft without ever having exposed the periscope. This last time I know it was the destroyer out in front who detected me. The other couple of times I came in from the points and am not sure whether one of the flanking DD picked me up or the DD out in front. I've played SH1 for the last ten years as a member of the PTC and have played SH2 and SH3 so I really don't consider myself a novice when it comes to playing SHIV. But since I've tried playing SHIV with the 1.3 I'm really feeling out of my depth. I tried every approach I can think of and I still get detected, it's getting really fustrating.

This is my exact same problem. I've been playing SHIII for quite a while, but I cannot seem to figure out the detection ranges for SHIV for the life of me.

Although, I did manage to intercept an heavily escorted/mixed convoy last night. Ran a bow pattern (run parallel then angle in once oyu've pulled out in front) intercept at dusk and waited till low light to move in. I penetrated the lead and flank DD's somewhat easily, although they did get close to me with a DC run. Damaged my forward dive plane transmission and rudder transmission. Not enough to really effect me or to have me consider coming off silent running to repair.

I scattered the convoy and sent an Agano Light Cruiser to the bottom. I'm currently shadowing right off the port side of another Agano while the DD escorts move around looking for me. Planning how to move into a firing position on one of the two remaining Agano's or a merchant.

It seems that if you're able to put yourself in a favorable position early on (out in front anywhere from 40 to 320 AOB or so) the early detection doesn't seem to matter. Once the DD's close slipping past them isn't too hard or an ordeal.

[Tom C]

Don't forget the ai_sensor.dat. By default all JP active sonar (excepting Q sonar equivlant) has a very shallow max elevation. 100 on all. What this means, is its incredibly easy to get under the beam, and due to the projection of the beam, it wont be at its deepest point until its at its maximum range. Which kind of sucks because when the escort is looking for you, you won't be in that deepest portion of the beam most of the time, you'll be under it. This is why they can get a ping from a ways off, but once they get closer, the pinging stops.

Not sure what 100 max elevation means, or if you were objecting to it or not (and JP was passive, right?). Basically I don't understand modders' talk. But the idea that the ping beam passes over the top of the deep-submerged sub as the escort gets close is RL, I think. Don't eliminate it!

[Peto]

Originally Posted by Suicide Charlie

Say you've been given a task force report and it's positioned say to the WNW-W of you and heading S. It's close enough that it should be possible to intercept (Say using a S-class boat. We'll go with a slow example for an extreme.). What are you're steps to move to an intercept position on those fast moving ships when they're about on the same latitude?

If I have a speed advantage I run parrallel to their course until they're well behind me (about 135 or 225 relative). Then I come about 30 degrees right or left so I'm working in ahead of them. Just keep nudging your course to put you ahead but out of visual range. Needless to say, if I have radar this approach is greatly simplified!

I typically try to dive ahead of the formation but then instead of heading straight for them, I angle off to one side by a few degrees so I'll be positioned off one flank of the convoy/task force. The when they get close, I turn back in for my approach.

If I only have a 1-2 knot speed advantage it's very difficult to do.

As for you checking 1.3 out some more Jace: I'm glad in a selfish way! You do some great work with you mods and I'd hate for them not to be compatible with 1.3. Just want you to know that you're appreciated by all members of my crew .

And Tater: DL'd your Campaign mod and am checking it out. I'll let you know my thoughts after I've had some time with it. So far--it looks Great!!!! Thank You!

Cheers!

Peto