Venezuela to get Kilos

[AntEater]

Isnt wrong per se, as basically all postwar diesel submarines are based on the type XXI.
But I have the feeling they confused Venezuela's existing type 209 subs with the Kilos.
Type 209s are really a mixture of design features of type XXI and smaller postwar german subs, which are in turn based on designs made during wartime (type XXX and such).

Regarding supercavitating torpedoes, while it definitely is rocket science (rocket driven) a lot of countries are experimenting with them and the russians do not have a monopoly on the technology, they just have the first operational model.

[Steel_Tomb]

Hmmm... HMS Astute + supercavitating topredo = a very dead kilo (when it actually gets in the water lol).

[XabbaRus]

I don't think "It's the Guardian" what do you expect accuracy has anything to do with it. The Guardian is a decent paper though sometimes I read it inconjunction with the Times to get balance.

It has nothing to do with the Guardian per se but newspapers digging up these analysts who make stupid comments.

anyway I am writing them a letter.

[AntEater]

As a leftie, I like the Guardian
Problem with left wing media is that competence in military affairs is sadly lacking, often it seems that incompetence in military affairs is seen as a status symbol.
I though this was limited to german media, but the guardian article just proved that it is a european phenomenon.

On the other hand, right wing media often overstates military statistics and ignores other factors.
The middle ground is sadly lacking today..

[fatty]

Interesting but not alarming I don't think. Except for the Antilles, Venezuela is pretty much facing open ocean. It's not like the Persian Gulf - a true littoral situation - which has chokepoints and shallows, the kinds of places where diesel subs like the Kilo are worth their weight in gold. Transiting all around the West Indies would require a bit of snorting which nullifies the silence advantage of a diesel sub.

If it came to a conflict I bet the U.S.N. could lock them down pretty handily.

[Kapitan]

Even though for the past year the swedish gotland submarine has been giving the USN the run around?

[fatty]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Even though for the past year the swedish gotland submarine has been giving the USN the run around?

Gotland uses AIP. There is no mention of including AIP with the types 636 and 677 for Chavez.

[DAB]

I doubt AIP has much to do with Gotlands performance at all. Rather, its a modern submarine crewed by top class people.

Even an old SSK can cause havoc. British Oberons were still winning wargames against NATO surface groups into the 1990's (and those submarines were based on Type XXI's). And if what the Argentinians are claiming about their Submarines in the Falklands is even half true, then under certain conditions submarines that were refitted under the 1940/50's GUPPY programme were able to get within striking distance of a top class navy that specialised in Submarine Hunting.

I suspect that what Venezella is trying to do is deny US and other warships the ability to operate securely off their coast - which would make it difficult for the US to attempt any further coups (if it did try any in the first place and lets face it, the jurys out on that one) and in future, it would make it difficult for any embagos or sanctions regime to be maintained.

All you need is to get one of those Submarines out to sea and your oppenent is going to have to wait for your submarine to mess up, or for one of its ships to disapear. It doesn't even matter if the boat is actually there, as long as they can claim its lurking about - the US navy is going to have to undertake precautions that will inhibit its capabilities.

If I were looking to shield myself from a powerful neighbour with a capable maritime presence, I would be looking to buy submarines, and I personally wouldn't care if they were Kilo's, Foxtrots or even Type VII U-boats - as long as they are a potentual nusence, they would be doing their job

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by AntEater

Isnt wrong per se, as basically all postwar diesel submarines are based on the type XXI.

Ummm no. Subs like the Whiskey/Zulu, Romeo, and Foxtrot, and Tango class (from the Russian side) and GUPPY, and Tang/Dater class from the US Side are based on the Type XXI submarines of WWII. Submarines like the Barbel (and its Japanse bult decendents) and Kilo/Amur class are based on the Albacore design which itself is based on the Holland designs of the 1900's. But thats not so say the Technolgy of the Type XXI didn't make it in to those submarines just the design is based on something totaly diffrent.