I did it!

[Rockin Robbins]

Sorry, I thought my comments were confined to specific, focused and factual observations. I always thought flaming was just general character assassination, ad hominem attacks made because the attacker has no factual basis for disagreement. After all, there is no way I should be able to purchase this game (so soon after release especially) for $15.00. The fact that I did is powerful and unprejudiced support of my allegations. The tragedy is that UBI did 90% of the work necessary to make a product of legendary proportions. So much of the simulation is of astounding quality, which makes "features" like losing game saves much more egregious than they normally would be. If the simulation was terrible we wouldn't care if the saved games were lost. I would gladly have waited six more months for a great product and paid $50.00 with a smile for the privilege. I share your concern that the forum not degenerate into insult fests and apologize for any offense. We captains are known to be passionate about what we do you know! Time to get SH4 loaded up and take a stroll around the Pacific!

[donut]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Sorry, I thought my comments were confined to specific, focused and factual observations. I always thought flaming was just general character assassination, ad hominem attacks made because the attacker has no factual basis for disagreement. After all, there is no way I should be able to purchase this game (so soon after release especially) for $15.00. The fact that I did is powerful and unprejudiced support of my allegations. The tragedy is that UBI did 90% of the work necessary to make a product of legendary proportions. So much of the simulation is of astounding quality, which makes "features" like losing game saves much more egregious than they normally would be. If the simulation was terrible we wouldn't care if the saved games were lost. I would gladly have waited six more months for a great product and paid $50.00 with a smile for the privilege. I share your concern that the forum not degenerate into insult fests and apologize for any offense. We captains are known to be passionate about what we do you know! Time to get SH4 loaded up and take a stroll around the Pacific!

>>>Welcome aboard,Rockin Robbins To SUBsim.com,

[Rockin Robbins]

Imagine my surprise after running SH3 for a year with GWX mods installed, when SH4 after an uneventful install process hautily informed me that "A required security module cannot be activated. This program cannot be executed (5024)." Turned out that the Nazis at UBI and Sony (SecuROM) decided that my Microsoft supplied Process Explorer program (a Windows task manager replacement/augmentation) which has absolutely no application in illegally copying DVD's, would not be permitted on my machine! Well, it would be but SH4 would not run until I eliminated it. Nope. That's the end. My computer is my property, not Sony or UBI's. This is not an incompatibility issue, it is a stupidity issue where they have decided I cannot lawfully use my computer as I wish. I am sorry. I am the customer, and therefore am king. By the authority duly accorded me as king I hereby sentence UBI and Sony to death by starvation. I will not buy Sony or UBI products forever until they approach me and admit that they were wrong, have had a change of heart and will pay me back for all the products I have been bilked for. I urge all, especially those running UBI and Sony products without issues, to follow suit and refuse to buy these products. What is to keep them from deciding that installation of their games will without your permission hack your machine, secretly install cloaked malicious software that terminates your ability to burn CD's and DVD's? Oops, they have already done that with Sony's infamous rootkit DRM on their music CD's. Some companies do not deserve to be a part of a free marketplace. These two are the top of that heap. If you care about your freedom to lawfully use your computer and govern its functions you need to join me and boycott UBI and Sony. This is war. The Customer always wins wars. SH3 was protected enough and didn't cross the line. Open all torpedo tubes. Fire one through four!

[Argus00]

Bought it right when it hit the shelves, around $60.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Imagine my surprise after running SH3 for a year with GWX mods installed, when SH4 after an uneventful install process hautily informed me that "A required security module cannot be activated. This program cannot be executed (5024)."
....

SH3 was protected enough and didn't cross the line. Open all torpedo tubes. Fire one through four!

BS buddy, you obviously don't recall the huge flame wars that went on with the release of SH3 and the whole Starforce fiasco. Many many folks had far worse problems with Starforce than with Securrom kindly do a search on the issue (especially about 2005 or so) many foks cursed SH3 and UBI as badly as you are doing now. So let me ask you are you having any problems with Starforce and SH3??? Otherwise please stop with the whining and ranting that will destroy our hobby.

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by joea

BS buddy, you obviously don't recall the huge flame wars that went on with the release of SH3 and the whole Starforce fiasco. Many many folks had far worse problems with Starforce than with Securrom kindly do a search on the issue (especially about 2005 or so) many foks cursed SH3 and UBI as badly as you are doing now. So let me ask you are you having any problems with Starforce and SH3??? Otherwise please stop with the whining and ranting that will destroy our hobby.

Calm down please....its plausible that he did not know of this....no need to tear his head of.....OK?

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

This is not an incompatibility issue, it is a stupidity issue

Cant say I disagree with that statement...

BTW paragraphs are a usefull thing. If you want folks to read through your entire post I would recommend the use of them (paragraphs).

[mookiemookie]

This is a garbage thread. It smacks of "Your game sucks, I paid less for it than you, nyah nyah!"

I may have paid more, but I've gotten that money's worth of fun out of it since release day.

[STEED]

OK

I got my one from a friend for £2 but I am not gloating after all he was going to throw it in the bin.

His loss is my gain and thats that.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

This is a garbage thread. It smacks of "Your game sucks, I paid less for it than you, nyah nyah!"

I may have paid more, but I've gotten that money's worth of fun out of it since release day.

Whenever I come across a thread like that (not saying this is one) I am always tempted to write back "well, then I guess it's a good thing I make so much more money than you do!"

JCC

[Soundman]

I have to comment on this, and if I knew how to set up a poll I would. Maybe someone will after reading this. I think this is an important issue to the sim community in general, because I read that gaming companies don't make any (or not enough) money on simulations any more as compared to other "games". Therefore, the sim future does not look too bright.

I have been a sim fan as long as i have owned a puter, and am really more of a flight sim guy than a subsim guy, although subsims are a very close second. I have many simulations and must admit my favorite all time sim is Falcon 4.0, in all it's incarnations. I have literally thousands of hours in Falcon alone. Probably at least 3000 hours if I figure in all the times I started over without saving my logbook or just discarded the mission in order to do it over. Anyway, even if I go with 1000 hours, with a cost of $40.00, I only paid about 4 cents an hour. That's damn cheap entertainment!

My point is.. how much are we, "The Community", really willing to spend on a well done simulation. I personally would have no problem spending $100.00, or more. I strongly believe it is vital to the sim communities' future survival, that we let companies know how much we love our simulations. If they are not made aware, the future looks pretty bleak. How much are you willing to pay?

[Rockin Robbins]

<Edit: Please refer to the Subsim FAQ regarding discussions of hacking software>

While the Gestapo is looking for evil programs like Microsoft's Process Explorer (when will they decide my Avast! Antivirus is an untolerated program: how dare I try to protect myself!) before they allow our game of choice to run, the real bad guys are coming to the rescue of law abiding people like myself, who only wish to play the game we paid their money for. We paid our money in good faith. If UBI and Sony do not choose to operate in good faith, we have little choice but to follow suit. The Gestapo has forgotten one important fact: they are outnumbered by those much smarter than they are. :k now: It's unfortunate that in order to fight one evil you must in some way cooperate with another. However, abuses by lawful authority are much more harmful and dangerous than abuses by lawbreakers. Think about it.

<Edit That was an offence that would quickly earn you a permanent ban here, but, as you are new, I will cut you some slack. Please read the Subsim FAQ regarding hacking>

I have installed it and verified it is harmless. The Sysinternals forum also confirms that it is harmless and does its job well, specifically mentioning its effectiveness against SecuROM. So if you wish not to join my boycott and wish to run Process Explorer as part of your system protection array, that's how you can do it. I'm modifying my stance and in my Kingly powers over my machine have granted SH3 a pardon, grandfathering it in as an already purchased program not violating my sense of what is fair in copy protection schemes. (I couldn't bear to uninstall the world's greatest simulation). But the verdict remains death by starvation for Sony and UBI! No more purchases until they remove draconian copy protection schemes and respect customers' rights. The customer is King!!! We will prevail.

[Rockin Robbins]

#mookie--The only reason I mentioned the low price that I paid was that without customers feeling they were totally fleeced, a $15 purchase would not have been possible. A great way to check out the reality of those get rich quick real estate programs is to go on eBay and see the multi-hundred dollar CD sets for sale for $10. Why are they there? Pure anger and resentment leads those selling to make a statement as to the worthlessness of the product. This is a parallel situation. This soon after release I should have to pay $50.00, which I would have paid with a smile. Fortunately, I smelled a rat and fortuitously sought to cut my losses. I am not bragging about spending $15 in any way. You missed my point entirely.

#dean--shocked why? I love SH3 and have played it for a year, even joining Subsim several months back when I had some save games vanish (getting great help quickly, which restored my enjoyment of the game). Are you shocked that I object to a game telling me how it will allow me to protect my computer? Or are you shocked as I am that a private battle between Mark Russinovich and Sony should escalate into a petty denial of my right to play a game that I paid for in good faith?

#joea--our hobby is in danger from customers feeling insulted by a game company which does not respect our rights. The game company may be in danger because the consumer always wins these battles, but our hobby will flourish as new companies who value the good faith money spent by their customers take the place of those who would exploit us. That will happen quickly only if we refuse to tolerate tactics such as SecuRom protection. So long as we say "we're happily playing, go away!" we ensure that the next game becomes even more draconian in its abuse, and you will be the next affected. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and this is the place to do it. We have SH3. We are not impoverished. We can afford to insist on decent treatment without destroying the hobby. I think you know that and seek to inflame. That is not my intent. I promised John Channing I would keep myself focused and factual and am doing exactly that.

#bsalyers--Arrrrrr matey! Well said!

[XLjedi]

Got mine the day it went on the shelves... so $50+taxes.

In spite of the bugs, and unplayable as it is... I still have to say; yes, if UBI should happen to continue on with the SH series, they will continue to get my dollar votes. I gotta support em just for trying!