Definitive torpedo depth/exploder status in 1.2

spdklls · 05-30-07, 07:33 PM

I asked about this once before.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...731#post518731

Since then I've discovered that the recog manual is just plain wrong about the draft on certain ships.

Heavy seas will often cause your torps to go low, but if you have the correct draft for a ship and set torpedo depth 1 - 3 ft under this, the results are very dramatic. Many ships will split in two with one shot under the keel

, as opposed to four or five into the sides. The mag detonator seems to need to be within 5 ft to actually work though. I think this is the problem when playing metric measures. One notch on the dial in imperial is one foot, while on metric one notch would be almost four feet.:hmm: You don't have fine enough control on metric, causing a lot of low misses.

nomad_delta · 05-30-07, 07:47 PM

spdklls: So you've actually been able to somewhat reliably get magnetic detonations by setting torpedo depths to 1-3 feet below the ship's draft? Just to confirm, are you setting your torpedos to Contact or Contact/Influence for this? (there was some speculation that the setting might be reversed, so if you're getting actual magnetic detonations that should confirm whether or not that's true)

I guess that brings us right back to my original question #3b, "Where can I find accurate ship draft measurements for all ships that actually work in the game?" -- without accurate values for the ship drafts in the game, all of the other questions become moot.

I wonder if there's a way to pull the information directly from the game data files?

nomad_delta

nomad_delta · 05-30-07, 08:00 PM

I just thought of another important question to add to my original list:

4. Does the year during which you are playing have any effect on torpedo running depths? I've read in several threads that historically there were many problems with torpedos during the early years of the war, including inaccurate depth mechanisms -- but it's never been really clear to me whether and how that might actually be modelled in the game. In particular most historical documents I've read (including that excellent link that The Avon Lady posted) suggested that MK14 torpedos were running 5-11ft below their intended depths due to calibration problems. Does anyone know whether the game actually tries to replicate the 1941-1943 torpedo depth issues?

spdklls · 05-30-07, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomad_delta

spdklls: So you've actually been able to somewhat reliably get magnetic detonations by setting torpedo depths to 1-3 feet below the ship's draft? Just to confirm, are you setting your torpedos to Contact or Contact/Influence for this? (there was some speculation that the setting might be reversed, so if you're getting actual magnetic detonations that should confirm whether or not that's true)
nomad_delta

I had it set to mag influence/contact, the default. Sorry I wasn't clear on that!!

wstaub · 05-30-07, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdklls

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomad_delta

spdklls: So you've actually been able to somewhat reliably get magnetic detonations by setting torpedo depths to 1-3 feet below the ship's draft? Just to confirm, are you setting your torpedos to Contact or Contact/Influence for this? (there was some speculation that the setting might be reversed, so if you're getting actual magnetic detonations that should confirm whether or not that's true)
nomad_delta

I had it set to mag influence/contact, the default. Sorry I wasn't clear on that!!

And for Me I need it to be set to Contact only to get the Magnetic Detonation. This just goes to show that the game reacts differently for some people.

# Follow-up on Post 20

-Pv- · 05-30-07, 08:53 PM

I use only the combo setting on a non-modded game. I always shoot to hit as low as possible and when the torp has the good luck to pass under (because this torp worked, or the wave action was favorable) I get very nice destruction from proximity only detonation. Is it possible I'm getting an invisible contact detonation rather than prox? Yes.

An advantage of using the combo setting is if I fail to get it under, I will get a good contact hit low on the hull. I've yet to use more than 3 torps to sink any medium size ship. The two pax liners I've taken out so far were done both in very stormy weather with two torps. From my understanding reading the 1.3 patch list, I infer that there are discrepancies between the logical draft and the visual model so torps can "appear" to pass under visually or early when approaching the target and still explode when set to contact. It may be that the setting isn't reversed as much as the visual observation is not accurate as to what's actually happenening. Possibly the ship is larger or lower in the water in the logic than the visual.

An example of getting easily confused by observation alone was the convoy halt bug after the 1st explosion. It surprised many of us to learn it was because we sank the command ship and the AI was slow to select a new command ship to set the course and speed to escape.
-Pv-

spdklls · 05-30-07, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstaub

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdklls

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomad_delta

spdklls: So you've actually been able to somewhat reliably get magnetic detonations by setting torpedo depths to 1-3 feet below the ship's draft? Just to confirm, are you setting your torpedos to Contact or Contact/Influence for this? (there was some speculation that the setting might be reversed, so if you're getting actual magnetic detonations that should confirm whether or not that's true)
nomad_delta

I had it set to mag influence/contact, the default. Sorry I wasn't clear on that!!

And for Me I need it to be set to Contact only to get the Magnetic Detonation. This just goes to show that the game reacts differently for some people.

:hmm: Do you play imperial or metric? I really think there is a conversion in the game code that isn't being done from metric to imp. Why on earth would the depth dial go to 50 when playing metric?:hmm: I doubt any ship ever had a draft of 200 feet!

Seriously though, are you positive the torpedo went under the keel without touching at all? It's very dificult for me to tell sometimes with the camera view.

Also, has anyone seen a mag detonate when passing next to a ship? In my exp., influence only works when passing directly under a ship, while in real life physics a magnetic field extends in all directions ( like a circle around it) with strength evenly decreasing with distance. In other words, those 'near misses' due to a DD turning sharply or speeding up should still det the warhead and blow the screws off or the rudder or something. I've seen torps go right by a ship so close you could reach out and touch it if you were riding it but not detonate

. Only if the exploder goes directly under the ship's keel will it magnetically detonate (that I've seen). Can anyone confirm/ disprove this?

Do the torps in the game have a top & bottom? I mean do they always come out the tubes in the same orientation, without any spinning or twisting? Could they only sense a mag field to the top and det., with fields to the sides/ bottom not det.? I hope someone can shed some light on this for me.

NefariousKoel · 05-30-07, 11:06 PM

To answer a question, yes, the game factors in a variation of torpedo depth. I believe it's a percentage so the lower you set it, the more variation. FYI.

GTHammer · 05-30-07, 11:29 PM

As to my previous post early on, since that time I have experienced torpedo's exploding while passing under the keel on both settings. I have also experienced(Even with Duds off) torpedo's at both settings passing just under the keel and not detonating. So anymore I just set 'em to contact+influence and aiming as low as possible. My comp likes to crash when i am in external cam so I haven't been able to run too many tests though...I guess we'll have to wait until 1.3 then check things out then. They are suposably going to fix the ship dimension stuff with 1.3...

Tronics · 05-30-07, 11:36 PM

I think that the primitive magnetic detonators are designed to detonate when they cross the invert threshold of a magnetic field, aka where N and S flip, thus telling it quite ovbiously that 'it's time to explode now'.

As for the topedo depth gauge I believe it's done in feet. But I've been getting crappy results with it, mostly due to the apparent futility of the early war magnetic detonators.

That and recently in anything other then my S-class career it seems that I have a higher then normal rate of 'drastic torpedo failures'...

I had one explode about 15 yards out of the tube and cripple the USS Drum's foreward torpedo tubes.

05-30-07, 07:33 PM	#1
spdklls Watch Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 21 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Imperial or Metric I asked about this once before. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...731#post518731 Since then I've discovered that the recog manual is just plain wrong about the draft on certain ships. Heavy seas will often cause your torps to go low, but if you have the correct draft for a ship and set torpedo depth 1 - 3 ft under this, the results are very dramatic. Many ships will split in two with one shot under the keel, as opposed to four or five into the sides. The mag detonator seems to need to be within 5 ft to actually work though. I think this is the problem when playing metric measures. One notch on the dial in imperial is one foot, while on metric one notch would be almost four feet.:hmm: You don't have fine enough control on metric, causing a lot of low misses.

05-30-07, 11:06 PM	#8
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	To answer a question, yes, the game factors in a variation of torpedo depth. I believe it's a percentage so the lower you set it, the more variation. FYI. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

05-30-07, 11:29 PM	#9
GTHammer Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 127 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	As to my previous post early on, since that time I have experienced torpedo's exploding while passing under the keel on both settings. I have also experienced(Even with Duds off) torpedo's at both settings passing just under the keel and not detonating. So anymore I just set 'em to contact+influence and aiming as low as possible. My comp likes to crash when i am in external cam so I haven't been able to run too many tests though...I guess we'll have to wait until 1.3 then check things out then. They are suposably going to fix the ship dimension stuff with 1.3... __________________ GT USS Hammer

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05-30-07, 07:47 PM	#2
nomad_delta Planesman Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 185 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	spdklls: So you've actually been able to somewhat reliably get magnetic detonations by setting torpedo depths to 1-3 feet below the ship's draft? Just to confirm, are you setting your torpedos to Contact or Contact/Influence for this? (there was some speculation that the setting might be reversed, so if you're getting actual magnetic detonations that should confirm whether or not that's true) I guess that brings us right back to my original question #3b, "*Where can I find accurate ship draft measurements for all ships that actually* work in the game?**" -- without accurate values for the ship drafts in the game, all of the other questions become moot. I wonder if there's a way to pull the information directly from the game data files? nomad_delta

05-30-07, 08:00 PM	#3
nomad_delta Planesman Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 185 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I just thought of another important question to add to my original list: 4. Does the year during which you are playing have any effect on torpedo running depths? I've read in several threads that historically there were many problems with torpedos during the early years of the war, including inaccurate depth mechanisms -- but it's never been really clear to me whether and how that might actually be modelled in the game. In particular most historical documents I've read (including that excellent link that The Avon Lady posted) suggested that MK14 torpedos were running 5-11ft below their intended depths due to calibration problems. Does anyone know whether the game actually tries to replicate the 1941-1943 torpedo depth issues?

05-30-07, 08:53 PM	#6
-Pv- The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,434 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I use only the combo setting on a non-modded game. I always shoot to hit as low as possible and when the torp has the good luck to pass under (because this torp worked, or the wave action was favorable) I get very nice destruction from proximity only detonation. Is it possible I'm getting an invisible contact detonation rather than prox? Yes. An advantage of using the combo setting is if I fail to get it under, I will get a good contact hit low on the hull. I've yet to use more than 3 torps to sink any medium size ship. The two pax liners I've taken out so far were done both in very stormy weather with two torps. From my understanding reading the 1.3 patch list, I infer that there are discrepancies between the logical draft and the visual model so torps can "appear" to pass under visually or early when approaching the target and still explode when set to contact. It may be that the setting isn't reversed as much as the visual observation is not accurate as to what's actually happenening. Possibly the ship is larger or lower in the water in the logic than the visual. An example of getting easily confused by observation alone was the convoy halt bug after the 1st explosion. It surprised many of us to learn it was because we sank the command ship and the AI was slow to select a new command ship to set the course and speed to escape. -Pv-

05-30-07, 11:36 PM	#10
Tronics A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 78 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	I think that the primitive magnetic detonators are designed to detonate when they cross the invert threshold of a magnetic field, aka where N and S flip, thus telling it quite ovbiously that 'it's time to explode now'. As for the topedo depth gauge I believe it's done in feet. But I've been getting crappy results with it, mostly due to the apparent futility of the early war magnetic detonators. That and recently in anything other then my S-class career it seems that I have a higher then normal rate of 'drastic torpedo failures'... I had one explode about 15 yards out of the tube and cripple the USS Drum's foreward torpedo tubes.