Modding Ethic/Courtesy Rules (Agreed)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

asking permission to use the mod - forget it, your in fantasy land.

Hardly. In its barest form common courtesy and "the right thing to do" should determine matters at the end of the day here.

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

a free mod for free download to the public carries no such obligation. asking modders to do this will discourage the sharing of new mods that didn't go to all that trouble.

At Subsim.com, I think it is a fair thing to say that it has been tradition to first ask permission. Customarily receiving "no" as an answer is unusual. Some may cite impatience or inconvenience as a reason for not asking. This is a cop-out to circumvent good old common decency.

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

stating that if this mod is used then proper credit must be given to me and john doe is the reasonable thing to add in your mod code.
it's a good idea to REQUEST that it state this mod is or is not based on realism
as for mods without credits or read me i say anything out there is fair game and free to use without restrictions on how you use it. contrary to some views i have read, it is not my obligation to spend my time and effort searching for a modder who did not include the info i need to credit him when he made his mod download.
i think we are going too far into the minutia of the credit issue where we should look more
at helping the modders made their mods better with read me's that explain just what the mod
does, any credits given as needed, and what i see lacking in most mods is a date and/or a version number for the mod. please lets go this route with this post and not lock in on who gets credit.

Common basic courtesy is not too much to expect. Expecting you to first ask permission and then credit modders whose work you hope to build upon... is a bare minimum that should be expected.

Non-modders who may have just arrived here. I am not talking down to you or trying to minimize your enthusiasm for submarine/naval simulations. The simple fact is that you have not been here to observe the story unfold that has brought us to this point. You just don't have the vested interest in the last two years of creation that have gone on here... overcoming obstacles.

Failure to make a basic effort to ask permission and credit is just lazy and/or rude.

What I look for here is a common set of basic rules that will apply to everyone... designed to protect and recognize modders who submit original works.

This thread is not opened to set rules than conform to a MAJORITY but instead rules that apply to ALL.


As Hitman stated in a similar thread that went south:

Originally Posted by Hitman

The purpose of the topic is agreeing in some ethics that all of you consider worth respecting. It could well serve as a guide for new modders and orientation for veterans.

Some people here at least try to conduct their modding in an ethical fashion. Some flaunt it that they do not... I think that it should be just fine and dandy that people take issue with the latter in a vocal manner. In this it is a matter of right versus wrong.

This does not violate civil rights or harm the act of creation. Boundaries are in place at Subsim... and you agreed to them when you registered. It is only natural that boundaries/rules for mod permissions and crediting carry into the mods workshops. (not just SH3)

Perfect uninamity in deciding said rules and ethics will naturally be impossible as well... because it serves the interests of those who just don't care who they step on to reach a goal... they will oppose it.

Somewhere between the simple... and the complicated proposals there is a reasonable set of guidelines...

Finally, dealing with it is where a little guts are required.

Otherwise, the sense of calm, friendly decency, and near professionalism that you can find here on the best of days... is just a veneer of polish... over continuously erupting anarchy.

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Hardly. In its barest form common courtesy and "the right thing to do" should determine matters at the end of the day here.

At Subsim.com, I think it is a fair thing to say that it has been tradition to first ask permission. Customarily receiving "no" as an answer is unusual. Some may cite impatience or inconvenience as a reason for not asking. This is a cop-out to circumvent good old common decency.

Common basic courtesy is not too much to expect. Expecting you to first ask permission and then credit modders whose work you hope to build upon... is a bare minimum that should be expected.

Non-modders who may have just arrived here. I am not talking down to you or trying to minimize your enthusiasm for submarine/naval simulations. The simple fact is that you have not been here to observe the story unfold that has brought us to this point. You just don't have the vested interest in the last two years of creation that have gone on here... overcoming obstacles.

Failure to make a basic effort to ask permission and credit is just lazy and/or rude.

What I look for here is a common set of basic rules that will apply to everyone... designed to protect and recognize modders who submit original works.

This thread is not opened to set rules than conform to a MAJORITY but instead rules that apply to ALL.


As Hitman stated in a similar thread that went south:

Some people here at least try to conduct their modding in an ethical fashion. Some flaunt it that they do not... I think that it should be just fine and dandy that people take issue with the latter in a vocal manner. In this it is a matter of right versus wrong.

This does not violate civil rights or harm the act of creation. Boundaries are in place at Subsim... and you agreed to them when you registered. It is only natural that boundaries/rules for mod permissions and crediting carry into the mods workshops. (not just SH3)

Perfect uninamity in deciding said rules and ethics will naturally be impossible as well... because it serves the interests of those who just don't care who they step on to reach a goal... they will oppose it.

Somewhere between the simple... and the complicated proposals there is a reasonable set of guidelines...

Finally, dealing with it is where a little guts are required.

Otherwise, the sense of calm, friendly decency, and near professionalism that you can find here on the best of days... is just a veneer of polish... over continuously erupting anarchy.

so are you trying to set guidlines whereby you can deny access to those you deem in violation of your rules? because as you continue to return to words like enforce and then you state that this forum is not opened to set rules that conform to a majority but instead that apply to all. this sounds like you are saying the majority should not make the rules but must abide by them. that is not open discussion.

don't get me wrong here kpt. i feel you are the injured party in the past drama that occured but as it seems now you are sounding like you want to go overboard and instead of guidlines to follow you want rules and punishments for not following these rules. the punishments and enforcing the rules part is where i disagree with you. that i fear will spell the deathnel here as it will turn off members new and old.


please read my post here which better explains my views on mod ethics

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114633

[Kpt. Lehmann]

@Webster,

I appreciate your thoughts. I will respond properly in a bit. I have some real life stuff stacking up atm. You've given me some ideas too. (of the positive sort I think.)

[CaptainCox]

I would like to link this discussion to the SH4 section...could a Moderator do that please ?

I also added this to my latest MOD...its a start, any recommendations would be more then welcome.

Captain Midnight's
MORE CBS NEWS! MOD v1.2
Made by
CAPTAIN COX
Added 103 more news events, thats 161 in total!
Added some Captain Midnight radio episodes
and some more commercials
Removed ALL! music as I think people have different
tastes and there is also the copyright issue.
To add your own music to the CBS Radio channel,
simply dump your mp3 files in:
Captain Midnights MORE CBS NEWS! MOD v1,2\Data\Sound\Radio\CBS NEWS

Install:
Simply use with JSGME
If you don't have it get it here:
http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/software/products.html

Enjoy!

DISCLAIMER:
This mod can be included or used with other mods or mod packs
under the condition that CAPTAIN COX is mentioned as the creator
in the readme as well as in any release forum post related to the mod or mod pack
that includes it.

If you still need to contact me as to regards of above disclaimer please contact me at Captain_Cox3@hotmail.de