Medals too easy

GatorSub1942 · 05-13-07, 08:41 PM

I've found it is too easy to be awarded the higher medals. Are there mods around that make it tougher?

Krupp · 05-13-07, 11:42 PM

What you consider "too easy" compared to tonnage figures and general executing of your patrol?

I noticed, when I was reading the Silent Victory, that skippers and XO's received Bronze-, Silverstar or Navy Cross when they returned from a aggressively performed patrol, with anything from couple to half a dozen sunk merchants or damaged/sunk major jap man-of-war. Admirals were ecstatic when one of their skippers had sunk four ships in one patrol.

So in the real world, back then, sinking "few" merchants or tankers was highly praised and was a big contribution to the war efford. As it should have been. We are talking about amazing amount of war materiel in aircraft gasoline, ammunitions, vehicles, raw materials or troop reinforcements if the sunk ship was a troop transport. There could be 2000 - 3000 infantry soldiers in a single medium size troopship.

Comparing these sinking results in SH4 sinkins, we must admit that we are spoiled about how easily we can bag half a dozen enemy ships. That is easily seen when looking some topic headlines: "I bagged 100 000 tons in my maiden cruise" -style.

They had to face working enemy AI and the convoys dispersed after attack in all directions, not jumped on their brakes to be slaughtered by some gungho-bit-skipper, who's biggest worries are that they have to go to bed soon cos the clock is past midnight and it's a working day tomorrow.

I've found it is too easy to sink enemy ships, which equals it is too easy to get medals. We can try to mod this game to eternity to get it more realistic, but if we don't act like real skippers in dire straits with the fear of death hanging around our necks, it is a fruitless job (modding).

tedhealy · 05-13-07, 11:56 PM

Perhaps relevant, from Admiral Fluckey's Thunder Below, pg 290:

Quote:

Regarding awards, nearly everyone in the Barb knew that when an enemy naval vessel or a merchant ship of over 1000 tons was sunk during a war patrol, the patrol would be considered successful, and an award of the combat insignia would be authorized to all hands. Those already awarded would add a gold star to their insignia. If during a patrol more ships are sunk, the medal awarded the captain moves up the ladder, from Bronze Star to Silver Star to Navy Cross. For the Navy Cross, that captain then has the privilege of recommending three people for the Silver Star award, four for the Bronze Star, and six for Letters of Commendations with Ribbon.

So the Navy brass seems pretty liberal with awards for patrols that sink ships.

vindex · 05-14-07, 01:36 AM

Did any sub commander -- or anyone on a sub for that matter -- ever win a Congressional Medal of Honor? I'm curious to know.

[update]
Oops, I answered my own question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Cromwell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_B._Fluckey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_W._Gilmore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Kane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawson_P._Ramage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_L._Street_III

In fact, I was surprised to learn that a very large percentage of the Navy personnel who won CMH's during WWII were submarine commanders (there were only a handful of Navy CMH's at all, compared to quite an extensive list for the Army -- many of the non-sub ones were posthumously earned at Pearl Harbor).

So it is actually reasonable for a truly outstanding sub commander to aspire to this goal.

Fearless · 05-14-07, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindex

Did any sub commander -- or anyone on a sub for that matter -- ever win a Congressional Medal of Honor? I'm curious to know.

Check this out. http://www.medalofhonor.com/WilliamBadders.htm

mcoca · 05-14-07, 03:26 AM

What about making the crew's medals less common? After a really good patrol I have half a dozen "Medals of Valor" to hand out to the crew. After a few good patrols it becomes a joke "Those who still don't have a Medal of Valor, please raise your hand, so I can give you one"

t0maz · 05-14-07, 03:32 AM

Stock game is too easy - use RFB

vindex · 05-14-07, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoca

After a really good patrol I have half a dozen "Medals of Valor" to hand out to the crew.

It's so strange how people report widely varying experiences with the game. On one patrol I sank about 130k, which in historic terms puts it in the all-time record book. The point is, I got one Medal of Honor (Medal of Valor equivalent with "real medals" mod) for myself, plus one Silver Star and three Bronze Stars to hand out to the crew. Since I sank two battleships and a carrier, all in all I thought this was a pretty reasonable outcome (compare to the Medal of Honor stories above, and it just about fits). The problem, as far as I can tell, isn't the medals but the tonnage you can sink, especially if you're not using the "tougher" mods or you're taking advantage of the fact that the ports are under-defended.

What in the world did you do to get 1/2-dozen Medals of Honor to hand out to the crew? What was your tonnage score like??

mcoca · 05-14-07, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindex

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoca

After a really good patrol I have half a dozen "Medals of Valor" to hand out to the crew.

It's so strange how people report widely varying experiences with the game. On one patrol I sank about 130k, which in historic terms puts it in the all-time record book. The point is, I got one Medal of Honor (Medal of Valor equivalent with "real medals" mod) for myself, plus one Silver Star and three Bronze Stars to hand out to the crew. Since I sank two battleships and a carrier, all in all I thought this was a pretty reasonable outcome (compare to the Medal of Honor stories above, and it just about fits). The problem, as far as I can tell, isn't the medals but the tonnage you can sink, especially if you're not using the "tougher" mods or you're taking advantage of the fact that the ports are under-defended.

Actually, I'm using my hand-made modifications that 1) reduce ship density by a lot and 2) add escorts to roughly 60% of single merchants. Even with that, yes, there are too many targets, and my patrol tonnages are quite high. Plus, I suspect unspent renown may have some effect. I'm not really using lots of renown from a patrol to the next, and have aroun 8k "in the bank".

Quote:

What in the world did you do to get 1/2-dozen Medals of Honor to hand out to the crew? What was your tonnage score like??

I was in the right place at the right time: Palawan Passage, October 22nd-23rd 1944, just as Kurita's Center Force passed through on its way to Leyte Gulf

I sank the Yamato and a Heavy cruiser. Then I got a couple of merchants with the remaining torps, for a total of 4 ships and ~90k tons.

Hey, no-one can say that's because there are too many targets. Of all the Yamatos people sink, mine might be the only historically correct one

Jace11 · 05-14-07, 11:35 AM

Not easy in my game... Last patrol sank two ships, torp malfunctions, lack of convoy data and very nasty escorts prevented anymore...

I will be releasing my mod at some point in the future..

It is tentatively titled.. "****** ***"

jmjohnson36 · 05-14-07, 03:59 PM

Yes there were several awarded, most posthumously...but to answer your question:

ANTRIM, RICHARD NOTT, Commander, U.S. Navy., Makassar, Celebes, Netherlands East Indies, April 1942.

FLUCKEY, EUGENE BENNETT, Commander, U.S. Navy, Commanding USS Barb., Along coast of China, 19 December 1944 to 15 February 1945.

HALL, WILLIAM E., Lieutenant, Junior Grade, U.S. Naval Reserve., Coral Sea, 7 and 8 May 1942. Assigned to USS Pike, not aboard.

O'KANE, RICHARD HETHERINGTON, Commander, U.S. Navy, commanding USS Tang., Vicinity Philippine Islands, 23 and 24 October 1944

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindex

Did any sub commander -- or anyone on a sub for that matter -- ever win a Congressional Medal of Honor? I'm curious to know.

[update]
Oops, I answered my own question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Cromwell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_B._Fluckey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_W._Gilmore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Kane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawson_P._Ramage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_L._Street_III

In fact, I was surprised to learn that a very large percentage of the Navy personnel who won CMH's during WWII were submarine commanders (there were only a handful of Navy CMH's at all, compared to quite an extensive list for the Army -- many of the non-sub ones were posthumously earned at Pearl Harbor).

So it is actually reasonable for a truly outstanding sub commander to aspire to this goal.

FooFighters · 05-14-07, 04:46 PM

I have to agree.. I was just awarded the medal of honor for a 34000 tonnage 1st patrol

Nothing special just some merchants, 1 tanker and a warship (subhunter).

For some pictures of ths patrol.. check the screenshot thread..
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...892#post533892

tater · 05-14-07, 05:00 PM

Yeah, the problem has more to do with the super EZ mode of the stock game. You can easily sink huge tonnages as it is. Part of the problem is the contact reports. The mod to shorten the range they are given to you reduces traffic reports you cannot do anything about, but you are still getting way way way too many reports IMO. In the campaign layers, I changed almost all the 50%, 75% and 100% contact reports to 5% or less. I practically never see a contact report now, if my lookouts or radar don't see it, it gets away.

FooFighters · 05-14-07, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Yeah, the problem has more to do with the super EZ mode of the stock game. You can easily sink huge tonnages as it is. Part of the problem is the contact reports. The mod to shorten the range they are given to you reduces traffic reports you cannot do anything about, but you are still getting way way way too many reports IMO. In the campaign layers, I changed almost all the 50%, 75% and 100% contact reports to 5% or less. I practically never see a contact report now, if my lookouts or radar don't see it, it gets away.

I use trigger Maru.. and I rarely see contact reports now.

tater · 05-14-07, 05:33 PM

I had the reduced contact reports set up as well, but it is a poor fix for the gameplay, even as it is a great fix for lag due to the log filling up.

The problem is that ou have the contact report range set to some arbitrarily short range. None the less, if a target passes inside that range, the chances of a contact report are the same. So you might only see contact reports within a few hours range at flank speed, but you will see just as many of those as you'd ever see, you just don't see the reports so far away that they are of no use to you (dunno what the report range is changed to in TM, the one released mod was set to 400 miles or something).

Bottom line is that if you are getting many huge patrols, that's the real acid test.

05-13-07, 08:41 PM	#1
GatorSub1942 Watch Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Medals too easy I've found it is too easy to be awarded the higher medals. Are there mods around that make it tougher?

05-13-07, 11:42 PM	#2
Krupp Weps Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 351 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What you consider "too easy" compared to tonnage figures and general executing of your patrol? I noticed, when I was reading the Silent Victory, that skippers and XO's received Bronze-, Silverstar or Navy Cross when they returned from a aggressively performed patrol, with anything from couple to half a dozen sunk merchants or damaged/sunk major jap man-of-war. Admirals were ecstatic when one of their skippers had sunk four ships in one patrol. So in the real world, back then, sinking "few" merchants or tankers was highly praised and was a big contribution to the war efford. As it should have been. We are talking about amazing amount of war materiel in aircraft gasoline, ammunitions, vehicles, raw materials or troop reinforcements if the sunk ship was a troop transport. There could be 2000 - 3000 infantry soldiers in a single medium size troopship. Comparing these sinking results in SH4 sinkins, we must admit that we are spoiled about how easily we can bag half a dozen enemy ships. That is easily seen when looking some topic headlines: "I bagged 100 000 tons in my maiden cruise" -style. They had to face working enemy AI and the convoys dispersed after attack in all directions, not jumped on their brakes to be slaughtered by some gungho-bit-skipper, who's biggest worries are that they have to go to bed soon cos the clock is past midnight and it's a working day tomorrow. I've found it is too easy to sink enemy ships, which equals it is too easy to get medals. We can try to mod this game to eternity to get it more realistic, but if we don't act like real skippers in dire straits with the fear of death hanging around our necks, it is a fruitless job (modding). __________________ "Gentlemen, we have no choice. Total engagement. Die with dignity." Last edited by Krupp; 05-13-07 at 11:55 PM.

05-14-07, 01:36 AM	#4
vindex Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 192 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Did any sub commander -- or anyone on a sub for that matter -- ever win a Congressional Medal of Honor? I'm curious to know. [update] Oops, I answered my own question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Cromwell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_B._Fluckey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_W._Gilmore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Kane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawson_P._Ramage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_L._Street_III In fact, I was surprised to learn that a very large percentage of the Navy personnel who won CMH's during WWII were submarine commanders (there were only a handful of Navy CMH's at all, compared to quite an extensive list for the Army -- many of the non-sub ones were posthumously earned at Pearl Harbor). So it is actually reasonable for a truly outstanding sub commander to aspire to this goal. Last edited by vindex; 05-14-07 at 01:49 AM.

05-14-07, 04:46 PM	#12
FooFighters Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 813 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I have to agree.. I was just awarded the medal of honor for a 34000 tonnage 1st patrol Nothing special just some merchants, 1 tanker and a warship (subhunter). For some pictures of ths patrol.. check the screenshot thread.. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...892#post533892 __________________ This forum is not the same without you Dave.. we'll miss you buddy

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05-14-07, 03:26 AM	#6
mcoca Loader Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 86 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What about making the crew's medals less common? After a really good patrol I have half a dozen "Medals of Valor" to hand out to the crew. After a few good patrols it becomes a joke "Those who still don't have a Medal of Valor, please raise your hand, so I can give you one"

05-14-07, 03:32 AM	#7
t0maz Ensign Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 231 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Stock game is too easy - use RFB

05-14-07, 11:35 AM	#10
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	Not easy in my game... Last patrol sank two ships, torp malfunctions, lack of convoy data and very nasty escorts prevented anymore... I will be releasing my mod at some point in the future.. It is tentatively titled.. "**** *"

05-14-07, 05:00 PM	#13
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, the problem has more to do with the super EZ mode of the stock game. You can easily sink huge tonnages as it is. Part of the problem is the contact reports. The mod to shorten the range they are given to you reduces traffic reports you cannot do anything about, but you are still getting way way way too many reports IMO. In the campaign layers, I changed almost all the 50%, 75% and 100% contact reports to 5% or less. I practically never see a contact report now, if my lookouts or radar don't see it, it gets away.

05-14-07, 05:33 PM	#15
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I had the reduced contact reports set up as well, but it is a poor fix for the gameplay, even as it is a great fix for lag due to the log filling up. The problem is that ou have the contact report range set to some arbitrarily short range. None the less, if a target passes inside that range, the chances of a contact report are the same. So you might only see contact reports within a few hours range at flank speed, but you will see just as many of those as you'd ever see, you just don't see the reports so far away that they are of no use to you (dunno what the report range is changed to in TM, the one released mod was set to 400 miles or something). Bottom line is that if you are getting many huge patrols, that's the real acid test.