Can anyone explain to me why they're not depressed by games that always end in death?

[Beery]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

It's just a game.

No, it's not 'just' a game. Not to me anyway. It's a simulation. If it was 'just' a game it could have flying nuns, chimpanzees and spaceships. It doesn't, and in fact it couldn't have those things and still be on the same serious level. No one would play a WW2 sub game that had chimps, flying nuns and spaceships in it because it wouldn't be a WW2 sub game then.

The fact that it is indeed a game doesn't mean that "anything goes as long as it's fun".

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by Beery

No, it's not 'just' a game. Not to me anyway. It's a simulation. If it was 'just' a game it could have flying nuns, chimpanzees and spaceships. It doesn't, and in fact it couldn't have those things and still be on the same serious level. No one would play a WW2 sub game that had chimps, flying nuns and spaceships in it because it wouldn't be a WW2 sub game then.

The fact that it is indeed a game doesn't mean that "anything goes as long as it's fun".

It's just a game. At the top of the standard retail edition box it says 'The Best Selling Submarine Game Series Ever'. There's no mention of the word simulation. It's a game of strategy and tactics set in a WWII submarine.

Just enjoy it.

[CaptainCox]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Just enjoy it.

Every figging second of it i would say

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Just enjoy it.

NO!

I DEMAND REAL DEPTH CHARGES!!!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

(Puts on helmet and nomex fire suit.)

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

(Puts on helmet and nomex fire suit.)

It isn't a race-car game...um, simulation!:p

[heartc]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

It's just a game. At the top of the standard retail edition box it says 'The Best Selling Submarine Game Series Ever'. There's no mention of the word simulation. It's a game of strategy and tactics set in a WWII submarine.

Just enjoy it.

Subject? Computer Game. Genre? Simulation. How can I tell? Common Sense.
So you are both right, but Beery is more accurate.

"It's a game of strategy and tactics set in a WWII submarine."

+ simulated systems in that sub = simulation.

[Tigrone]

Life always ends with death.

[vindex]

The only time I die in SH4 is when I take silly risks because (a) I want to see what will happen or (b) I'm too lazy/impatient to take all precautions I would in RL.

Regarding the above post, yeah, I recently read the book "Finest Hour" which includes the story of the sinking of the City of Benares with 77 evacuee children on board. Wikipedia: "The sinking ship took on an immediate list, thus preventing the launching of many of the liferafts and trapping numerous crew and passengers below decks. As a result, many of the 400 people on board were unable to escape. As hundreds of survivors struggled in the water, the U-boat's powerful searchlight swept once over the chaotic scene, before the boat left the area for good. The survivors in the boats were not rescued for nearly 24 hours, as the nearest allied units were 300 miles away, and in that time dozens of children and adults died from exposure, or drowned, leaving only 147 survivors. One boat was not picked up for a further eight days."

Really sobers you up.

Several Japanese merchant ships sunk by U.S. submarines, unbeknownst to them, contained Allied POWs. Worth pondering next time you send one to the deep.

[Chock]

To expand upon my original post on this thread me, the fact that sims remind you of the real thing is actually a quite a good thing in a lot of ways. I think it helps preserve the memory of a lot of very gallant actions, and serves as a warning for some of the nastier ones too.

Actions such as the sinking of transports with POWs on board - or anyone else for that matter - would for many people otherwise uninterested in history remain forgotten were it not for them appearing in simulations. And even though I've always been interested in history, I'll freely admit that many simulations have encouraged me to read a wider field of literature than I probably would otherwise have done.

It's also interesting to note that a shared interest in a subject, such as submarine conflicts, has brought many people together on this forum from around the world. Such an international meeting is going to make it ever-increasingly difficult for governments to demonise other nations in an attempt to get their populace to go and kill them. So in that sense, you could argue that submarine simulations are actually anything but depressing.

I'd certainly hope so.

[heartc]

Oh dear. Some people here didn't get the point of this thread at all. I'm pretty sure Beery is not really "depressed" about "death" in computer games from a psychological / philosophical standpoint - instead this thread is a follow up to a realism debate which was previously coming up shortly in several different threads and now was time to get its own one to share opinions on the matter. The matter being real life sub loss rates vs. sub loss rates in the game. If people would have read Beery's initial post in this thread instead of just the header this would have become clear, too.

[vindex]

I read the initial post (hence my comment about my own death-rate), but like so many threads this one also went off in another worthwhile direction. No biggy.

[daft]

I think Beery is on to something. Of all the mechanics that makes a game work, deaths are the least explored I think. From the run-of-the-mill action games to hardcore sims such as the SH-series, we seldom get penalized in any way for dying. There is no sense of loss other than a little dent in our pride after having been outsmarted by some stupid AI destroyer. Of course, the penalty cannot be too severe as that would scare people off, but having an option that would in some way make us curse and actually fear in game death would add a whole new dimension to gaming I think.