[TEC] - Solved !!!! Lost Radar Contacts When Sub Heading South (90-270)

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Here it is...

1.2 + 90/270 fix +working SD fix + SD detects only planes

http://www.speedyshare.com/505199404.html

I recommend testing this new file in the "edit" mission I posted on the previous page using a Porpoise from 1945 which lacks the SJ radar. You're first hint of a surface contact should be when you spot Yamato steaming at you at 25 kts from bearing 313. Planes are from 0, 180, 270, 90 degrees in the mission and all are set at 500m altitude, the one from 270 arrives a bit late I noticed.

The fix for SD was simple...

Elevation!!!! Stopped it dipping below horizon while keeping the 90/270 fix for a full 360 sweep.

WARNING!!!! - low flying aircraft may not be detected. I have tested 100m and 50m and they can approach the SD undetected. 500m - the default altitiude for planes in the game - is detected however..

This variation with altitude may add to the realism as US subs with SD could not not detect very low flying planes... so don't be over-reliant on your new "fully functional" SD set..

I still catching the ships contacts with this file

Into map and into SD PPI....

Why ?

Plus "one search sweep" seems to not works...

[Jace11]

Yes I just noticed that in rough seas I am picking up ship contacts. In my test mission the sea was flat. Maybe the pitching of the submarine in a rough sea alters the elevation of the sensor..

So in flat seas I get only planes, and in rough seas I get both.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Yes I just noticed that in rough seas I am picking up ship contacts. In my test mission the sea was flat. Maybe the pitching of the submarine in a rough sea alters the elevation of the sensor..

So in flat seas I get only planes, and in rough seas I get both.

Let me see... it may be because the antena has no giro stabilization modellated, may be in real life those old Sd antenas had not ?

The antena change its angles with the sub pitch up and down, but it must be covered by the minimun height.... wich seems to not works, if not, even when the sub pitch up or down, nothing under the minimun height must to be detected.

Any way, in calm seas i catch surface contacts....

[Ducimus]

I dunno if it well help, but i figured id mention my observations on the min height.

It's. REALLY, and i do mean, REALLY sensitive.

In testing, while i dont rember the exact figures, i think something like 8.4 produced sparatic contacts and 8.5 it ceased to work. It may have acutally been a smaller figure.

I seriously had this measurment down to tens of thousands of a fraction. For example 8.3535 or even 8.2525. I honestly gave up on fine tuning it because the measurment was so fractionally small, and yet it did seem to make a difference. Which i thought was really odd.

My best guess as to this behavior, the only thing that makes sense, is if the bottom of the radars geometic beam is not level with the horizon, but at a slight incline. An incline of just a couple degrees can make a HUGE difference when your talking a range of 40KM. My thought was if the geometric beam is inclined, then the min height is establishing itself off of that incline. Again, at 40KM out, that min height could be really far up in altitude.

heres what i mean: (not to scale)


Also note that the radar sensor, is probably NOT in the same location on every sub. Assuuming the game takes this into account. If it does It could be X meters high on one sub, and be X+1 meters high on another. If this is the case I do not think there will be a universal fix for all subs.

Naturally, zeroing out the MinSensorHeight didn't yield any positive results that i could tell. Is there another variable at work here that is not represented in the tweak files?

As always, correct me if im wrong. I dont want to mislead anyone if i have it all messed up in my perception of it.

[Jace11]

I replaced the sensors file with the original bugged 1.2 version that came straight from the patch. The single sweep button didnt work then either... Is it definatly working after 1.2 with no tweaks in the sensors file???

Could try changing SD elevation from Min1 Max179 to Min2 max 178

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Also note that the radar sensor, is probably NOT in the same location on every sub. Assuuming the game takes this into account. If it does It could be X meters high on one sub, and be X+1 meters high on another. If this is the case I do not think there will be a universal fix for all subs.

If i not remember bad from SH III it was the position for the sensor, but must have not too much influence, few meters up or down in this case.

In example if you put an hydrophone at maxsensroheight -10, and give it angles 90-180 you will not pick up a surface contact by few meters.

But here the iportant, i think so are the angles, to have a 0-180 beam at zero meters or at 8 meters must not change too much the sensor range.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Naturally, zeroing out the MinSensorHeight didn't yield any positive results that i could tell. Is there another variable at work here that is not represented in the tweak files?

As always, correct me if im wrong. I dont want to mislead anyone if i have it all messed up in my perception of it.

I think similar... there is some entry wrong.

Changes made do not reflects the souposed/spected behavior... :hmm:

Originally Posted by Jace11

I replaced the sensors file with the original bugged 1.2 version that came straight from the patch. The single sweep button didnt work then either... Is it definatly working after 1.2 with no tweaks in the sensors file???

Could try changing SD elevation from Min1 Max179 to Min2 max 178

I tryed 1-179, 2-178.... nothing happen. :hmm:

[Mraah]

THANK YOU EVERYONE , who contributed to a more realistic SD !!!!!!!

Handing out cold packs for the lumpy heads to :
Ducimus
Redwine
Jace11
letterboy1
Jungman
akdavis

Did I miss anybody???? Holler!

It was purely happenstance that I came across the original ElelvationMax problem and I appreciate the effort by everyone on this odd problem to figure out what in the wild-wild-world-of-sports was going on!!

Thanks again. Perhaps a new thread should be opened...
... [WIP] The Real SD/SJ ???? hmmm.

Rob

[akdavis]

Originally Posted by Redwine

I still catching the ships contacts with this file

Into map and into SD PPI....

Why ?

Plus "one search sweep" seems to not works...

SD has no display. If the PPI is accessible, you have SJ radar installed (or maybe SV, I guess).

Problem is, SD radar incorrectly feeds contacts to the SJ A-scope and PPI display, so if you have both installed, you will see both types of contacts, but I do believe it is the SD detecting air and SJ detecting surface.

edit: that is unless something really changed with 1.2 and they gave SD access to the displays without SJ installed at all, which means they just took a problem and made it worse. I'll have to double check in a sub with SD only.

[Jace11]

Yup its best to test the SD without SJ...

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Yup its best to test the SD without SJ...

Yes. I've noted that the SJ by itself (using 1941 SD with SJ values) the SJ and SJ-I will not pick up aircraft with it's current setting because MaxHeight is too low. They used 200 in v1.1 and it's down to 80 in v1.2 .

So far, I've tested a value of 500 for MaxHeight before it picks up a/c, however, this is based on MinHeight=6 (1.1 default). I'm guessing perhaps 255-300 before it detects a/c.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by akdavis

SD has no display. If the PPI is accessible, you have SJ radar installed (or maybe SV, I guess).

Problem is, SD radar incorrectly feeds contacts to the SJ A-scope and PPI display, so if you have both installed, you will see both types of contacts, but I do believe it is the SD detecting air and SJ detecting surface.

I was switching off the SJ before test. :hmm:

[Jace11]

Originally Posted by Redwine

I was switching off the SJ before test. :hmm:

Try picking an early sub that has no SJ and compare to what you saw before. It may change it may not, but at least then the SJ is definatley not being used..

Regards SJ and planes... yup min height is 80, but it will pick and track a plane at 50m on the PPI. I have tested this.

[Jace11]

Ok, im kinda finished with this for now... All I wanted to do originally was fix the SD not working.

http://www.speedyshare.com/495206880.html

This is my *cough* final version of the sensors file unless anything else comes up.

I have increased the blind angle of the SD to 2.5 degrees to avoid ships getting caught in the beam in bad weather when the sub is pitching.

Offically the SD-1 and SD-2 sets could pick up a medium bomber at 10000 feet (3000m) at about 15-25 miles. I picked up a betty at this alt at 16nm. This is pretty irrelevent though as most planes in the campaign operate lower than this (I think at 500m) though some of the larger planes sometimes appear to be at high alt..

Low flying planes will sneak under it still.

The important thing is ridding the SD of ship contacts.

I tested in a porpoise without SJ.

Also I tested in heavy seas and heavy fog at night....

The reason I did this was if visibility is bad a ship will get closer to you unobserved. Therefore as it gets closer it could enter the SD beam before visual sighting, therefore you will get a radar contact..

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by Jace11

Ok, im kinda finished with this for now... All I wanted to do originally was fix the SD not working.

http://www.speedyshare.com/495206880.html

This is my *cough* final version of the sensors file unless anything else comes up.

I have increased the blind angle of the SD to 2.5 degrees to avoid ships getting caught in the beam in bad weather when the sub is pitching.

Offically the SD-1 and SD-2 sets could pick up a medium bomber at 10000 feet (3000m) at about 15-25 miles. I picked up a betty at this alt at 16nm. This is pretty irrelevent though as most planes in the campaign operate lower than this (I think at 500m) though some of the larger planes sometimes appear to be at high alt..

Low flying planes will sneak under it still.

The important thing is ridding the SD of ship contacts.

I tested in a porpoise without SJ.

Also I tested in heavy seas and heavy fog at night....

The reason I did this was if visibility is bad a ship will get closer to you unobserved. Therefore as it gets closer it could enter the SD beam before visual sighting, therefore you will get a radar contact..

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

Once again Ducimus comes through!!
Thank you for your work!
I agree with you and sounds like this is the most realistic .

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Jace11

I ran it in my test, and ended up crashing into the Yamato!! I never saw it on SD radar even though it was NIGHT, HEAVY FOG and I was PITCHING in heavy seas...

Thats good enough for me.. I can't guarentee you will never get ship contacts, or that something else is wrong, but someone will find out.

Sounds so good, i will try it right now...