Question on Sonar Use at Peri Depth

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Brigs

I'm trying to get my head wrapped around this tweaking stuff, so need to ask a question here.

Using the minitweaker on sensors.sub.us.sim shows these values:
(MaxSensorHeight field)
Hydrophone 1 -6
Hydrophone 2 -9
Hydrophone 3 20000 (expected to see -6 here)

I changed H1 and H2 to -4 and -7 respectively (-5 and -8 also did not work for me...maybe because I had previously raised my periscope depth up 1 meter ??)

Bingo.....got sonar at periscope depth.

H3 might be a problem later on, though. I replaced 20000 with -4 and nothing evil immediately happened, but I've only been testing on sub school training missions.

Do you think that radical number change in H3 could hose up the works somewhere down the line ?

Thanks

Possibly, but I am using -4 instead of the 20K anyway. Its a sonar and 20K fails the sanity check for maxsensorheight.

[Fercyful]

Originally Posted by Brigs

Bingo.....got sonar at periscope depth.

please Brigs can you send me your file to me? I really want to use sonar at periscope depth... my email is: mospeada21@gmx.net thanks!

[Brigs]

Thanks U-Bones.....thought maybe I had a problem in that file because of that value being so high.

On the way Fercyful, but be warned.....this was my first time ever using the tweaker files, so I can't guarantee that something else didn't get screwed up along the way. Backup the original first.

[Jungman]

20000 is the range in meters. I have not looked at patch 1.2 yet. They made changes to that file. You should not put '-4' in place of that 200000 value. It is wrong adress.

Patch 1.1 had -6, -6, -9 at 15 km , 5km, and 20km ranges. They were all to -300 meters deep.

If mini tweak is giving you wrong answer, it is because the file has been changed due to patch 1.2 and you need to use an updated adress hex offset file for that program. What I listed worked fine for patch 1.1. Periscope stock setting is 49 feet deep. The passive sonar was set about 43 feet deep using -5, and -8.

I do it by hand. I do not know exactly what those three 'sonar' items are exactly, but they may have been set up that way so the active sonar does not interfere with the crew's AI passive sonar, or maybe even the visual AI reactions of your crew.

I once used the active sonar via crew report for distance and it gave me a rediculus result sometimes. You must be careful with those numbers. There was a reason why they were disabled at periscope depth. Plus, make sure to use an update Tweak File!
-----------------
S-Class. Yeh, they have a shallow draft. They can stand to use an even higher setting at -4. Someone needs to find out what those three entries are affecting what boat classes. Small, Middle, Big submarines :/

Good Luck!

[Meridian]

Originally Posted by Brigs

I'm trying to get my head wrapped around this tweaking stuff, so need to ask a question here.

Using the minitweaker on sensors.sub.us.sim shows these values:
(MaxSensorHeight field)
Hydrophone 1 -6
Hydrophone 2 -9
Hydrophone 3 20000 (expected to see -6 here)

I changed H1 and H2 to -4 and -7 respectively (-5 and -8 also did not work for me...maybe because I had previously raised my periscope depth up 1 meter ??)

Bingo.....got sonar at periscope depth.

H3 might be a problem later on, though. I replaced 20000 with -4 and nothing evil immediately happened, but I've only been testing on sub school training missions.

Do you think that radical number change in H3 could hose up the works somewhere down the line ?

Thanks

I mentioned this in another thread. Minitweaker is showing the wrong values. In 1.2 minitweaker has the values for one of the Hydrophones and an SD radar mixed up, that's why you are seeing those wildly different figures.

[bruschi sauro]

Originally Posted by Gildor

I am not an expert with Naval sensor terminology, but I was under the impression that SONAR and HYDROPHONES were not the same thing.

Isn't sonar the sensor to determine range to a target with a non-passive sound "ping", whereas the hydrophones are a passive listening device? i.e. two different apparatus.

Or am I completely off base here?

no you are right

[Krupp]

Like mentioned here many times before, the NSS_Hydrophone 3's max sensorheight=20000 and the other two (1 and 2) hydrophones are -6 and -9 respectively.

The NSS_Early SJ 5 radar's max sensorheight=-5, but the other earlySJ radars have their max sensorheight as 20000. With a quick glance, it looks like there might be a mix up between these two gadgets (max sensorheights)?

Also the min sensorheights seem to be mixed together? 0,1 and -500 values.

[GOZO]

Just a little add-in.....

A very good site presenting the original training manuals online as well.

http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/subtech.html

and here: http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/index.htm

Sonar has it's own manual here.

Cheers

OB

[MadMike]

A mod would be appreciated...

Yours, Mike

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Jungman

20000 is the range in meters. I have not looked at patch 1.2 yet. They made changes to that file. You should not put '-4' in place of that 200000 value. It is wrong adress.

The value 20000 is in the wrong place, but the address is correct for MaxSensorHeight. The tweakfile does this by search, so it keeps up with minor changes and it confirms the value is supposed to set the MaxSensorHeight variable.

As others have observed, they (UBI) put an SJ value in this sonar, and the sonar value in the SJ... So a small negative number (like -4) does in fact belong here, the 20k belongs in the maxsensorheight of the SJ.

Sanity check on ANY radar fails with maxsensorheight = -6
Sanity check on ANY sonar fails with maxsensorheight = 20000

[Bilge_Rat]

this is the other thread where this question was discussed:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111277


There is no right or wrong answer to this question within the limit of the very simple sound modeling implemented in SH4. I have left it as is, but its up to the personal preference of each player.

You should also note that even though you cannot hear contacts at PD, your sonar man will still report contacts, so you are not totally deaf.

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

You should also note that even though you cannot hear contacts at PD, your sonar man will still report contacts, so you are not totally deaf.

Boat specific. The whole point of this was that the game modeled an arbitrary level which some boats were above and others were below (while at PD).

In actual practice as soon as the heads are submerged they are able to receive, and at PD, they were well below surface and should be functional for ALL subs.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by TopCat

@Ducimus

Couldn't you insert this correction into your mod plz?

Done.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

In actual practice as soon as the heads are submerged they are able to receive, and at PD, they were well below surface and should be functional for ALL subs.

But as you will note in the other thread, there should be a degredation of sound close to the surface which does not exist in SH4 based on the simple sound model. Therefore the design decision to cut out the sonar at PD makes sense.

If a user wants to mod the game to use the sonar at PD, that is his choice, but no one can argue that one is more realistic than the other.

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

But as you will note in the other thread, there should be a degredation of sound close to the surface which does not exist in SH4 based on the simple sound model. Therefore the design decision to cut out the sonar at PD makes sense.

If a user wants to mod the game to use the sonar at PD, that is his choice, but no one can argue that one is more realistic than the other.

I agree totally about the mod choice, but you are absolutely wrong about the ability to argue about which is more realistic. To be factual and specific, at periscope depth the sonar heads are NOT close enough to the surface to be non functional. By design.

If they are below surface captivation level, and are solidly surrounded by fluid they work.

Submerged, but close to the surface, it is not a matter of degradation as much as it is interference from increased surface background noise. It is actually more "degraded" below a thermal and more "noisy" near the surface.