Is SH4 World Flat?

[SteamWake]

And the buckles are Marine and theres only 485 rivets not 490.....

Yuh its flat this was discussed in SH3 briefly. Its just that SH4 has vastly greater distances.

Theres enough programming nuancies to muck about... Imagine trying to explain to laymen the great circle route

[CCIP]

SH4's map is flat, BUT there is a real horizon in the game. Those of us in the modding business who've messed with the scene files know that the game models a curvature when rendering the 3D world around your sub.

[Zengaze]

A very relevant point was made earlier and was somewhat overlooked; while the map being flat may to most be inconsequential, it does have a significant bearing on patrol ranges, and therefore it must be said the operational capabilities of the boats are not simulated.

[sunvalleyslim]

CaptBC,
Welcome aboard, and if you haven't played SH3, I would suggest you give that a try too........An outstanding game in that the bugs have been worked out and the game modded. So you can play an outstanding game while waiting for this one to mature

[IsaanRanger]

Except in FSX and FS2004, Flight Simulator has a true Spherical Earth.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by IsaanRanger

Except in FSX and FS2004, Flight Simulator has a true Spherical Earth.

Has a few less things to model.

[CCIP]

Well it's a different engine. I'm sure there's technical reasons behind the flat SHIV map. In the big scope of things, I honestly don't think some of the distance deviations matter all that much in the end. They can be an issue, but not a big one by any means.

[Frederf]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Well it's a different engine. I'm sure there's technical reasons behind the flat SHIV map. In the big scope of things, I honestly don't think some of the distance deviations matter all that much in the end. They can be an issue, but not a big one by any means.

I think people are confusing the 2D map world and the the 3D environment world. They are two separate things. The 3D world is fine as flat. The most you can see is about 50nm (usually much less) and the curvature of the earth is not a big deal at that range. Hull-below-the-horizon effects can be achieved via "cheater" methods without the player really caring.

The 3D world is like a mobile stage that's rendered in the "bubble radius." The game only handles the rest of the world via very simple numerical methods until they get into the bubble and then they are simulated in much more detail.

Now the only thing really harder about tracking units outside the bubble is a few extra sines and cosines thrown in to step the statistical simulation and some special nav tools for plotting compound curved lines when greater than X distance when traveling great circle routes. Any programmer worth his salt would devise such a system inside of two weeks.

[IsaanRanger]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Has a few less things to model.

Better Scenery as well

[SteamWake]

Have you played combat flight simulator ?

Look this game (SH4) is calculating lots of things... damage models, ship models + AI, torpedo trajectorys, shells trajectorys + impacts + damagge, sensor input, Line of sight, not to mention the many convoys, and dynamic campaign thingys.

I play fsx and enjoy it. Even participate in a VA. But frankly FSX has a lot less things to worry about than SH4. The comparison is unfair.

[Seeadler]

more about planetary rendering
http://www.organicvectory.com/planet/planet_index.html
ftp://ftp.research.microsoft.com/pub/tr/tr-2005-123.pdf

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by IsaanRanger

Better Scenery as well

Depends on where you are. I flew to Wilhelmshaven and there was nothing there at all.

[Diopos]

Resurficing this older thread just to say:
1. When you have to travel an "ingame" trip of ~15000-16000 km (from Midway to N/NE out of Formosa and back) of what would actually a 11000-12000 km trip.
2. When your map is not a flat projection of a spherical world but a flat "zoom out" of a flat earth.

and when all these are primary designer decisions that actually "desimulate" a foundamental aspect of WW2 submarine warfare which is not only shooting (dud ) torpedoes but shooting (dud ) toprpedoes after traveling through half an ocean to have that privilege (that is to shoot dud torprdoes) then this is a problem.
SO SH4 is definetely not a simulation. As Zengaze noted earlier in this thread:

"Zengaze: A very relevant point was made earlier and was somewhat overlooked; while the map being flat may to most be inconsequential, it does have a significant bearing on patrol ranges, and therefore it must be said the operational capabilities of the boats are not simulated."

Simple as that...Altough I'd never consider a "flat earth" map (i.e a wrong map) "incosequential" in any naval simulation which includes trips to patrol zones half an (Pacific) ocean away.
Now we can try to enjoy "SH4 a FPTS -First Person Torpedoe Shooter".

Has the flat earth been "moded out" somehow? Seems rather difficult to do so......

[SingeDebile]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Has a few less things to model.

have you heard of x-plane ? (sperical earth... with FAA approved LIVE calculated flight physics... not from tables like every single other flight sim)

in terms of simulation etc... i would say x-plane (www.x-plane.com) is calculating alot more... the graphics arnt as good as SH4 (not that its ugly at all)... but it gets Everything else right

[Orion2012]

Originally Posted by Zengaze

A very relevant point was made earlier and was somewhat overlooked; while the map being flat may to most be inconsequential, it does have a significant bearing on patrol ranges, and therefore it must be said the operational capabilities of the boats are not simulated.

Very valid point. This point is actually talked about in the GWX manual, and how they used a formula to help make the patrol ranges more realistic. Not by changing the map per se, but by working out a formula to add the average number of KM you sail because it is straight and adding that into the range.

It's been a while since I read it, but it is in there. I'm sure someone could do the same with SH4.