Retired After 3 Missions In Gato, Feb. 1942?

[nattydread]

Just start another random campaign...new boat, new year, new fleet.

[Tigrone]

Where did you find this list of skippers and their patrols Mookiemookie?

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Slade Cutter, USS Seahorse: 4 patrols, 72,000 JANAC confirmed tons sunk
Gordon Underwood, USS Spadefish: 3 patrols, 75,386 JANAC confirmed tons sunk
Henry Bruton, USS Greenling: 4 patrols, 54,564 JANAC confirmed tons sunk
....

[Ducimus]

Here im guessing:
http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/sublist.html

[tedhealy]

I agree realistic career length should be an option, but the short career actually serves a higher degree of immersion for me. I know my career will be short and I have to produce and be aggressive just like the real skippers.

There I am cruising around in deep water nearing the end of my patrol. I haven't sunk anything yet. I know Lockwood is going to be breathing down my neck if I don't produce. Suddenly risking going into shallow waters or a port to find and sink some targets to keep my job is looking like a better and better idea. Do I risk it? If the short career pushes me into these tough choices, then I'll love it.

All that being said, I too had a career end after one patrol in a Gato. Something about my boat being mothballed so for lack of results they were going to mothball me too.

[Takao]

I think the 3-4 average is because a lot of skippers were dropped because of 3-4 zero patrols(sighted nothing, sank nothing), others were lost with their submarines, and still others went to new construction(with the war ending before another war patrol could be started). Also, a trend I have seen is that for as many war patrols as the captain made as CO, he did as many patrols as XO. After all, they were not just dropped in as CO, did 3-4 war patrols, and that was the extent of their war service. Then you have the opposite side of the coin. Take, for example, Wreford G. Chapple. He made 11 war patrols: 2 in S-38, 6 in USS Permit, and 3 in USS Bream. There are several COs with 5-6 war patrols completed. I think the biggest problem with the game is that you are not playing the captain, per se, you are playing the submarine. SHIV, IMHO, lacks any immersive feel that you are playing the CO. I am not the CO of the USS Tuna, I am the USS Tuna. At least in SHIII, there was interaction with the crew and you had your own cabin to retire to. That's not in SHIV. I have yet to have a crewman go "Aye, Aye Captain", all I have gotten are "Yes sir". Heck, any enlisted man would say that to an ensign. The game just makes me feel that I am more the boat itself, then I am her captain. Yes, its true captains, usually did not make a lot of patrols. But the submarines did. Ahh, with any luck it will become an option with a later patch, or some one will, come up with a mod that will do the same

[Ducimus]

Think i may have a reason why on the retirement. And it highlighted an oversight in my own mod pack which im about to corrrect.


Basically it involves the avialbity dates in the flotilla.upc file.

Simply put:

[Flotilla 1.UserPlayerUnitType 4]
ID= F1Gato
NameDisplayable= Gato class
AvailabilityInterval= 1942-04-18, NULL
IDLinkUserPlayerUnitType= Gato
UnitTypeCommonality= 10
IDFlotillaLinkTransferTo= NULL

The bold part means. "boat type comes avialable in apr 42, and lasts tell end of war."

Im guessing that if you forget to update this, when the avialalibty date hits, the game basically trips and thinks its time to retire the boat.

If anyone who's been using my mod pack has had this problem, my deepest aplogies for this oversight on my part. I had this nagging feeling to check the intial dates of the gato avialbilty date, but when it worked properly, on testing, i didnt give it a 2nd thought tell now.

[TheSatyr]

One of the major reasons for the short careers was what happened to Morton and a few others...it appears that a few losses happened while skippers were on their 4-6th patrols and the feeling was that they had been at it too long and had developed combat fatigue. According to Sterling in "Wake of the Wahoo" on the patrol before Sterling transfered out to go to stenographers school Morton would often wake up out of a sound sleep thinking either the Wahoo was under attack or thinking that they had made contact with the Japanese. I'm sure it was rather disconcerting to have your Skipper wake up out of a sound sleep and start yelling for the bearings to contacts that weren't there.

To be honest,Morton should have been pulled after his 3rd patrol...letting a man who was obviously worn out do a 5th patrol was almost criminal.

What happened to Morton was one of the main reasons they went to the 3-5 patrols and your out...and those that made more than 3 patrols were watched carefully for signs of combat fatigue. Those that did 5 patrols were a rare breed.

[tedhealy]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Think i may have a reason why on the retirement. And it highlighted an oversight in my own mod pack which im about to corrrect.


Basically it involves the avialbity dates in the flotilla.upc file.

Simply put:

The bold part means. "boat type comes avialable in apr 42, and lasts tell end of war."

Im guessing that if you forget to update this, when the avialalibty date hits, the game basically trips and thinks its time to retire the boat.

If anyone who's been using my mod pack has had this problem, my deepest aplogies for this oversight on my part. I had this nagging feeling to check the intial dates of the gato avialbilty date, but when it worked properly, on testing, i didnt give it a 2nd thought tell now.

Interesting, but I'm not using your mod (unless it's part of RFB) and I've seen retirement after 1 Gato patrol. Part of stock sh4 too?

Are you saying if you get a gato before april of 42, that the game says hey this boat isn't available, time to retire this guy?

[Ducimus]

Are you saying if you get a gato before april of 42, that the game says hey this boat isn't available, time to retire this guy?

Something like that, but this is only a GUESS.

Basically the flotilal.upc file defines what flotillas get what boats, when they get them, and what patrols those boat types will recieve. Boats themselves have a date they appear, and a date they disappear in a flotilla. When you already have the boat, i think the game gets confused and handles the entry date as if it were the exit date. If that makes any sense.

[nattydread]

Originally Posted by Takao

I think the 3-4 average is because a lot of skippers were dropped because of 3-4 zero patrols(sighted nothing, sank nothing), others were lost with their submarines, and still others went to new construction(with the war ending before another war patrol could be started). Also, a trend I have seen is that for as many war patrols as the captain made as CO, he did as many patrols as XO. After all, they were not just dropped in as CO, did 3-4 war patrols, and that was the extent of their war service. Then you have the opposite side of the coin. Take, for example, Wreford G. Chapple. He made 11 war patrols: 2 in S-38, 6 in USS Permit, and 3 in USS Bream. There are several COs with 5-6 war patrols completed. I think the biggest problem with the game is that you are not playing the captain, per se, you are playing the submarine. SHIV, IMHO, lacks any immersive feel that you are playing the CO. I am not the CO of the USS Tuna, I am the USS Tuna. At least in SHIII, there was interaction with the crew and you had your own cabin to retire to. That's not in SHIV. I have yet to have a crewman go "Aye, Aye Captain", all I have gotten are "Yes sir". Heck, any enlisted man would say that to an ensign. The game just makes me feel that I am more the boat itself, then I am her captain. Yes, its true captains, usually did not make a lot of patrols. But the submarines did. Ahh, with any luck it will become an option with a later patch, or some one will, come up with a mod that will do the same

I agree there are key interaction dynamics that are missing that woul dallow for us to feel like the Skipper. I wished the Devs would have figured that out. Basically they need a sense that actions were being relayed to appropriate crew memeber and the action was being taken by them at their station...the way player and crew interact with controlling the sub(dive, speed, heading, tunrs, etc.)

My main gripe is with the set up and firing of torps. I'd like to feel like Im relaying AoB, speed, range, etc to a TDC officer. I'd like to feel Im telling the XO to push the fire button or switch to the next torp, etc. Not that Im pushing the button, or flipping teh switches, or inputting the TDC data myself.

I want to hear the crew repeate and acknowledge my orders as i feed them data and tell them to fire the fish, etc.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Tigrone

Where did you find this list of skippers and their patrols Mookiemookie?

The appendix of Silent Victory. Great book, I might add.

[secur3x]

on my 8th patrol started in fremantle now im out of pearl harbour have had afew transfers and on my 3rd sub now. Returned to pearl after taking damage and only completing 1 objective that mission and i got shelved aswell but luckily i saved went back stayed out abit longer did another 5 objectives after afew ruturns to midway for some refit's and headed back to my objective. Now i returned after doing more objectives and i didnt get retired im now on my 9th patrol. My ace's board also has me on top (cough) with about 396,000 tonnes sunk 6th patrol i took 280,000 tonnes with 9 objectives playing on low realism untill i get the hang of the game. but it seems to me that sinking small amount of shipping and doing only 1 or 2 objectives per mission u get retired really quickly. my opinion anyway.

[Psyon]

nice list!

the "Silversides" did seven or eights patrols during the war. i do believe that the boat had more than one captian though..

and they certainly had part/whole crew transfers as dad did two patrols on the silversides and then was transfered to the Blackfin for one more patrol. before and inbetween he was shuttled around to various coastal watch ships..so it seems there was "lots" of movement in the sub boats

[Beery]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Excuse me?

Return to Pearl after my 3rd mission commanding USS Drum. Sunk 35,000+ tons and delivered troops to the Phillipines. Got a medal for the mission, then it says the Navy is retiring my boat class and me!!!! It was only 3 missions into her career.

This is a feature, not a bug. There were quite a few commanders who retired after three patrols. On the other hand, it would be nice if the game gave players the option of continuing. Being forced into retirement might be great for us realism fans, but it's not a good idea to force realism on everyone.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Tigrone

I strongly urge the developers to modify the career code to allow a player to have a total career of perhaps 18 patrols between the first day and the last day of the war. That could be easily split in 2 or 3 tours (boats) of 9 to 6 each. This would really add to the attractiveness of career play.

Please NO!

No real commander ever did that, and the last thing I want the game to do is to force me to play through the entire war (I had my fill of that with SH3). As an option, okay, but let's not modify career code just to suit those of us who want to play the game as a fantasy game.