Now that the British sailors are free...response?

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

Now that the British sailors are free...response?

Britain has flown now but we'll all pay for it later.

Skybird mentioned toughing up those ROEs. Is that referring to Rules of Engagement or Rules of Embarrassment.

Don't get me wrong. I'm very happy for the return of the sailors but I'm anxious to hear how and why they were converted to spineless dead fish for all the world to see. Was that part of their training or were they threatened?

Stay tuned for the next round.

[danlisa]

Our service men & women do a fantastic job in very stressful & dangerous areas. We sometimes forget this. The government should not.

If a member of the armed forces is captured/taken hostage or otherwise detained (without due reason) we should not pussy foot around and just get them out. They've earned that right.

Welcome home.

[1mPHUNit0]

Stay tuned for the next round.

Oh yhea you need war against Iran and Súria
Like was on Iraq
Like was on lebanon
Like is on Palestine
You live for wars and occupations

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by 1mPHUNit0

You live for wars and occupations

Yeah. It's a blast!

And you live for blaming everyone else except yourselves for your problems.

[baggygreen]

Imp, i know im only speaking personally and theres only a few members here who agree, but as far as im concerned, if we DONT fight them now, it's more of a problem later.

Its not as though there isnt enough to justify going n getting em anyways - the kidnapping of personnel and theft of military property is, in my opinion, enough to warrant a strike.

Doesnt necessarily mean a war.. if Iran is stupid enough to try something after say, a quarter of their military assets are destroyed in a nice little strike, the type of which has been seen before, we can just go n destroy another quarter. If they wanna keep it up, bye bye Iranian military!

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I'm very happy for the return of the sailors but I'm anxious to hear how and why they were converted to spineless dead fish for all the world to see. Was that part of their training or were they threatened?

I've been thinking about that but I'm holding off judging until they tell their story.

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

I've been thinking about that but I'm holding off judging until they tell their story.

Isn't that SOP?

I'm sure that I've read (Bravo 2 Zero & Tornado Down, pinch of salt/artistic license) that the standard proceedure to be as submissive & non-combatant as possible to ensure that you are not singled out by your captors.

I'm also sure that there a 2 other possible reasons.

The first being that it's probably not a good idea to act all macho/conquering hero types after a situation like this, doing so is likely to inflame matters and probably increase the likelyhood of this happening again.

The second is a little more sinister. To gain public support by showing our down-trodden or mistreated troops returning home. Now, why would the government need to raise public support.:hmm:

[August]

Name, rank, service number and date of birth only.

If tortured hold out as long as possible and then attempt to give misleading or inaccurate information.

Constantly attempt to escape and force the enemy to use an inordinate amount of troops to guard you.

Demand to see representatives from the Red Cross.

[Godalmighty83]

iam sure that those sailors+marines are in for a bit of a bashing at base for appearing so eager to get on TV but i doubt much more will happen.

i expect the navy will move a helo-carrier into the area soon to give more air support.

we simply need more ships/aircraft covering operations near any 'disputed' territory. give hms invincible a lick of paint and a modern air group and that should do, a light carrier would be more useful in the shallows then a big nuke stuck further out.

[STEED]

Britain's naval policy is to get it in the neck as are government makes cutbacks, stand by for more next year.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by August

Name, rank, service number and date of birth only.

If tortured hold out as long as possible and then attempt to give misleading or inaccurate information.

Constantly attempt to escape and force the enemy to use an inordinate amount of troops to guard you.

Demand to see representatives from the Red Cross.

The reality is closer to what danlisa says though to a point. It all depends on what your job is and situational awareness.
Bravo 2 Zero's experience was somewhat different then this.
It's a fact though that if they want to break you you will be broken. The only question is how long to hold out with minimum trauma to yourself and until your information is useless. I don't think this situation was anywhere near the ballpark for that line of reasoning though.
These guys knew they were good propaganda and they layed it on thick and fast which was a little disappointing. Just have to wait for their story.
As far as attempting to escape you had better be sure you can do it because legally you can be executed if recaptured.

[Platapus]

It only took six days back in 1973.

When did the first statement come out from the British naval personal? Three days, I think.

It is possible explaination worth investigating.

I will await their versions of that happened with great interest.

[August]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

As far as attempting to escape you had better be sure you can do it because legally you can be executed if recaptured.

I seriously doubt that as I believe the Geneva convention specifically recognizes that it is the duty of every servicemen to escape if possible.

BTW below is the US POW Code of Conduct

The Code of Conduct outlines basic responsibilities and obligations of members of the US Armed Forces. All members are expected to measure up to the standards embodied in the Code of Conduct. Although designed for a POW situation, the spirit and intent are applicable to service members subjected to other hostile detention. Such service members should consistently conduct themselves in a manner that avoids discrediting them and their country. There are six articles of the Code of Conduct that address situations and decision areas that, to some degree, may be encountered by all personnel. It includes basic information useful to POWs in their tasks of surviving honorably while resisting their captor’s efforts to exploit them to the enemy’s advantage and their disadvantage. Such survival and resistance require varying degrees of knowledge of what the six articles mean. President Dwight D. Eisenhower first published the Code of Conduct for members of the Armed Forces of the United States on 17 August 1955. In March 1988, President Ronald W. Reagan amended the code with gender-neutral language.
ARTICLE I.
I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
ARTICLE II.
I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.
ARTICLE III.
If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
ARTICLE IV.
If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
ARTICLE V.
When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
ARTICLE VI.
I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

[Platapus]

[quote=August]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

I seriously doubt that as I believe the Geneva convention specifically recognizes that it is the duty of every servicemen to escape if possible.

The Geneva Conventions (note plural) do recognize the right of a PoW to escape. However if the escaping PoW commits any illegal acts they can be tried in civil court for those illegal acts but not for the act of escaping.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by August

I seriously doubt that as I believe the Geneva convention specifically recognizes that it is the duty of every servicemen to escape if possible.

I wounder where I thought that one up from.:hmm:
Article 92 of Geneva Convention III covers that.
Reading the Code of Conduct brings back memories though.