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Old 04-02-07, 05:07 PM   #1
heartc
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Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer
Thats absolute bull**** man. Hitler was elected by the people, too, and if a government cares only about their own people its a fascist regime.
Holy ****, how about democracy 101 for you, pal?

A government who cares about its own people is fascist? Holy ****, where do you come from? I see the commie media has done good work on you.

You know, you are right in that point however that we voted for Hitler. Hitler was freely elected, thank you, cause usually apologists keep coming up with "Aber es war der Reichtagsbrand" or similar bull.

All this tells us however is not that democracy is a bad thing, or how you totally confusedly stated, that democracy means fascism, but that in fact people can err, and have to live with the consequences of their choices (you learn that one in Kindergarten, actually).

Living with the consequences in our case meant that when people made the choice to vote for Hitler and his thugs, who clearly stated their goals prior to election, including the abolishment of democracy in the Republik, and the "Ausrottung der jüdischen Rasse in Europa", they would also have to deal with the consequences of their democratic decision, which meant the firebombing of Dresden for example (you know, the one people now tend to whine about in their crusade of "reviewing" our history.)

So, what you are basicly saying is that democracy might be a bad thing because WE chose to elect a party which promised to ABOLISH democracy and exterminate the Jews. Do you even know how to spell L-O-G-I-C? -
Anyway, what you found there is not so much a problem with democracy as it is a problem of GERMAN HISTORY. Not America's Democracy is bad because we ****ed up ours', not America's wars are bad because we raped Eastern Europe, and not we do have the right to lecture Israel today born on the fact that we gassed 6 Million of them some 60 years ago and thereby are somehow "in the know" of humanitarian issues (what sick logic is that anyway??), and I tell you, none of our history is going to become somehow better magically by badmouthing the US or Israel today. It doesn't work like that.

BTW, that we didn't learn A DAMN THING from our history I know when I listen to people like you: You, as about 98% of the rest in Germany, worship the UN as some kind of higher being (because they are mostly against the US and Israel, countries we do not like - oh wait, JUST THE GOVERNMENTS!!! We love the people, really. lol). But I ask you, WHAT ARE THE UN? You didn't vote for the President there, and you have about 70% dictatorships sitting at that bargaining table. So, on the one hand you admit that we voted for a dictator in the 30s and that this might have been a mistake, but at the same time you and most of your ilk worship the UN, which is made up of 70% dictatorships? Even ONE dictatorship would be one too many. But you got no problem with that. Right. You learned a lot.

- BTW, sorry Neal, but the show is already on, and neither you nor me can stop it. Maybe in this forum - but that's about it.

Last edited by heartc; 04-02-07 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 04-02-07, 06:54 PM   #2
Wxman
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Ya beat me to it Heartc.

Hey GlobalExplorer, I don't know where you learned your political theory, but a lack of extra-national altruism has nothing to do with fascism.

Socialism is any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods, i.e., industry, is vested in a centralized government on behalf of the proletariat. This centralized government often plans and controls the economy. The proletariat, at who's behest the central government putatively is acting for, is that of the the class of wage earners, esp. those who earn their living by manual labor or who are dependent for support on daily or casual employment; the working class.

In contrast the theory or system of social organization that is based on the holding of all property in common being ascribed to the community as a whole, the collective, or to the state. In this system there is no concept of "private" property per se. In the former the concept of ownership of business, industry, enterprise and personal possession such as home, hearth and life do exist, but the government controls how these are to be implemented and used for the good of the State, i.e. the central authority. This is a Machiavellian concept in that when the State benefits, the people benefit. The philosophical distinction between socialism and communism, is that in the latter the State is the proletariat, i.e., the hoi polloi, itself. In theory, the central government merely conducts its affairs for the benefit of the people en mass.

The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, "bundle, (political) group," but also refers to the movement's emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism. The Nazi party was the fascist embodiement of National Socialism. Fascism being a system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

While it is true that Hitler was voted into office through democratic means, the 9th German federal election of the Weimar Republic held on March 5, 1933 was significant in that it was the last election to be held in Germany before World War II. However, despite achieving a much better result than in the November 1932 election, the Nazis did not do as well as Hitler had hoped, polling 43.9%, rather than the 50+% that he had expected. Therefore, Hitler was forced to maintain his coalition with the Nationalist DNVP to control a majority. In addition to this, Hitler needed a two-thirds majority to pass the Enabling Act (a law which allowed him to pass laws without consulting the Reichstag), which he gained by persuading the Centre Party to vote with him. The bill was passed on March 23 and though it was only meant to be effective for four years, it was formally prolonged twice. The powers conferred by the bill allowed the KPD and SPD to be outlawed, and firmly established Germany as a dictatorship. On the 14th July 1933 Germany officially declared a one party state with the passing of the Law against the formation of parties. On 30 January 1934, Gesetz über den Neuaufbau des Reichs changed the highly decentralized federal Germany of the Weimar era into a centralized state by disbanded state parliaments, transferring sovereign rights of the states to the Reich central government and put the state administrations under the control of the Reich administration.

That Hitler was voted into power was a direct result of crushing punative war-reparations that were demanded by the European allies at the end of WWI. Subsequently, in conjunction with the fundamental socialist philosophies prevalent throughout Germany since the latter half of the 19th century, the German political scene was quite a tragic scene. I would hazard to say that if but the German penchant for government social programs, and that the country was being bled dry with respect to compliance with the staggering burden of war reparations, the Great Depression would not have been the great catalyst with respect to Hilters rise to power. I believe that without the latter, the former also would not have been as significant concerning Hitler's rise to power. To the German people at the time, Hitler seemed to be the answer to all their problems. By the time they realized the horror in which they lived, it was far too late to do anything about it. The system that was implemented demanded complete and utter allegience to Hilter, and the Nazi party. There was no way that anybody had any hope of being anyone or doing anything without being a member of the Nazi party.
 
Old 04-03-07, 01:02 PM   #3
GlobalExplorer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartc
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer
Thats absolute bull**** man. Hitler was elected by the people, too, and if a government cares only about their own people its a fascist regime.
Holy ****, how about democracy 101 for you, pal?

A government who cares about its own people is fascist? Holy ****, where do you come from? I see the commie media has done good work on you.
This is pointless. I am off.
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Old 04-03-07, 02:36 PM   #4
heartc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer
This is pointless. I am off.
Right.




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