[REL]Visual and Hydrophone detection issue: a new workaround

[Capt.Crackerjack]

Originally Posted by Rubini

Yes, this is as i´m using. I just made some more ajusts over Jungman ones (over the one in the last release of this mod) and now I have a yet more balanced gameplay.

Have been on patrol using the Jungman AI sensor. I think it is ok for 1939, but it should be stepped up for 40-41: about halfway between Jungman and Standard AI? Will you be able to do that and provide us with the three AI sensor files?

Also, I think the visual eagle eye crew is fine, although a slight (!) reduction might be ok, but please do not decrease this too much!

Lastly, here are some sightings data:

1) Crew sighted DD in late afternoon at 8800m with partial clouds, no precip, no fog; I spotted* it at 8400m.

2) Sonar contact with MV coastal merchant at 21.4km.

3) Crew sighted same MV coastal merchant at 5000m during night with partial clouds, no precip, light fog: I spotted* it at 4800m.

4) Crew sighted Swordfish aircraft at 3500m with partial clouds, no precip, light fog: I spotted* it at 3200m.

*I normally do not spend much time scanning with binocs, because that is why I have the Watch Officer and crew on deck. I usually spot after being alerted by the WO.

This is truly a great mod, Rubini, and I prefer it with the default 8km mode. Thanks for your great efforts!

[bert8for3]

@Rubini:
So I have the mission editor figured out, at least to the point that I can set up a simple visual sighting mission. I see what you mean about being able to set the weather conditions. It'll be easy to set up a series of different missions with different weather conditions.

Here's a first one, mainly as an example for you, under "controlled" conditions:
Day / light fog / merchant - Large tanker / weather report "Clouds clear, precipitations none, fog light, wind speed 5 mps, direction 0" / Player sights merchant at 8600 m / Crew sights merchant at 8600 m. /

This prompts a few questions before I go any further:

Should I have realistic sensors selected in difficulty?

Should the player visual acquisition distance be based on the naked eye under best possible circumstances? i.e. using binoculars and knowing where to look for the target, I could just make it out at as a pretty faint blur at 8800-9000 m or maybe even a bit more than 9000. But under normal conditions scanning the horizon, and without binoculars, it is very unlikely that I would have seen the target before it showed a better outline with a touch of smoke on the horizon, which is the 8600 m. distance.

Does AoB of sighting make a difference? This was at pretty much 90deg.
There are obviously a lot of in-game variables. How many and which of these should be tested for each ship. And how many ships, or types?

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by bert8for3

@Rubini:
So I have the mission editor figured out, at least to the point that I can set up a simple visual sighting mission. I see what you mean about being able to set the weather conditions. It'll be easy to set up a series of different missions with different weather conditions.

Here's a first one, mainly as an example for you, under "controlled" conditions:
Day / light fog / merchant - Large tanker / weather report "Clouds clear, precipitations none, fog light, wind speed 5 mps, direction 0" / Player sights merchant at 8600 m / Crew sights merchant at 8600 m. /

This prompts a few questions before I go any further:

Should I have realistic sensors selected in difficulty?

Should the player visual acquisition distance be based on the naked eye under best possible circumstances? i.e. using binoculars and knowing where to look for the target, I could just make it out at as a pretty faint blur at 8800-9000 m or maybe even a bit more than 9000. But under normal conditions scanning the horizon, and without binoculars, it is very unlikely that I would have seen the target before it showed a better outline with a touch of smoke on the horizon, which is the 8600 m. distance.

Does AoB of sighting make a difference? This was at pretty much 90deg.
There are obviously a lot of in-game variables. How many and which of these should be tested for each ship. And how many ships, or types?

You are learning fast my friend!

Yes i also uses the ME (mission editor) and make a simple single mission to test the visual contact. I always use these main settings: 12:30 and 23:30, near equator line and runs my tests windowed without sounds but listening music to make this process less boring.
Then after each test you could just clik on your ME that is opened on the background, changes the weather varibales, save the SM again and restart the patrol without restart the game. I also uses a special mini mod with empty campaign files that i enable or disable with JSGME only for testing purposes to speedy up my load times more than five times. I also always test with small and big ships, small and big planes, day and night with all the four fog types. Also After good results i tested on the transition between day and night (SH3 makes different results here...). And i make this at least 5 or 6 time per test. Ufff... I´m crazy!
Ah, don´t forget that you will have medium and heavy fogs only using the heavy clouds on ME. Check this on the tests.

Yes, always use the Realistic sensors checked!

The best distance for the player is that where you can see the smoke (even a faint one) using binoculars on the tower watch. This probably will show some individual limitation between all us and is also dependant of how dark is the room where you are making the test. So an average one is enough!

And to finish, yes the AOB makes a huge difference. In the edges SH3 shows a smoke that isn´t visible in a +/- 45 degrees from your ahead. I made this mod using +/- 90 degrees maximum!

After all this I´m waiting yours reports to make the 16km mod.
Just kidding! I´m really without free time for the next days....

[bert8for3]

@Rubini:

Not sure what you mean by this: "I also uses a special mini mod with empty campaign files that i enable or disable with JSGME only for testing purposes to speedy up my load times more than five times." AFAIK, I'm not working any campaign files, just single mis files.

edit: Oh, and btw, the results I posted just earlier were with realistic sensors on.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by bert8for3

@Rubini:

Not sure what you mean by this: "I also uses a special mini mod with empty campaign files that i enable or disable with JSGME only for testing purposes to speedy up my load times more than five times." AFAIK, I'm not working any campaign files, just single mis files.

edit: Oh, and btw, the results I posted just earlier were with realistic sensors on.

You don´t are messing with the campaign files but SH3 ready them and all the hundreds of units inside each time that you fire a simple single mission...then the load time is very long...

Here. Install using JSGME at anytime that you need to make tests!
http://rapidshare.com/files/24059901...mpaign.7z.html

[bert8for3]

Originally Posted by Rubini

You don´t are messing with the campaign files but SH3 ready them and all the hundreds of units inside each time that you fire a simple single mission...then the load time is very long...

Here. Install using JSGME at anytime that you need to make tests!
http://rapidshare.com/files/24059901...mpaign.7z.html

Ah, understood, it was indeed taking a very long time to load. Tks.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by bert8for3

Ah, understood, it was indeed taking a very long time to load. Tks.

I forgot to say that I always use 128TC to test (a middle ground to an average player in game situation). And I also set my game to pause when find a contact what always will give me the right distance, which i can measure with the rule or just unpause and ask to my WO!

[Capt.Crackerjack]

Thanks, Rubini and please check your PM!

[Rubini]

Ok!
Check your email!

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Capt.Crackerjack

Have been on patrol using the Jungman AI sensor. I think it is ok for 1939, but it should be stepped up for 40-41: about halfway between Jungman and Standard AI? Will you be able to do that and provide us with the three AI sensor files?

Also, I think the visual eagle eye crew is fine, although a slight (!) reduction might be ok, but please do not decrease this too much!

Lastly, here are some sightings data:

1) Crew sighted DD in late afternoon at 8800m with partial clouds, no precip, no fog; I spotted* it at 8400m.

2) Sonar contact with MV coastal merchant at 21.4km.

3) Crew sighted same MV coastal merchant at 5000m during night with partial clouds, no precip, light fog: I spotted* it at 4800m.

4) Crew sighted Swordfish aircraft at 3500m with partial clouds, no precip, light fog: I spotted* it at 3200m.

*I normally do not spend much time scanning with binocs, because that is why I have the Watch Officer and crew on deck. I usually spot after being alerted by the WO.

This is truly a great mod, Rubini, and I prefer it with the default 8km mode. Thanks for your great efforts!

Again, thanks for the feedback and is good to know that you also have good results as I have.

And yes, I have now three AI_sensors: The more like Jungman ones (that are in the mod), a second a bit more hard over Jungman's one and finally the adapted GWX one (also on the mod). If you want it (the second one) just PM me with your email.

About the reduction on the crew hability to see things...it's really only necessary a slight reduce...but all we need to not forget that SH3 always put some random on calculation (what is good in my opinion) so we never will have always the same exact spot for the player and the crew, but we in truth will have the best average distances where the crew and player will almost see at same time.

I will not release a new update with new adjusts, etc, etc.
I will say how to make this by yourself, I´m sure that this is the more democratic way.
The trick is simple: open your sensors.cfg (on data/cfg folder) - I´m speaking about the files that are in this mod - don´t use others files outside this mod because you will not get the same result.
It´s a text file. Locate this entry under visual section:

[SensorParameters]
; Sensors Detection Parameters

;Visual.
Visual range factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual fog factor=0.8 ;[>=0]1 (use 0.9 to 0.8)
Visual light factor=0.9

And change (raise) it to 0.82 or 0.83 to have a less eagle eyes crew.
Lower it to have a more eagle eye crew. Notice that I already wrote the possible interval for this mod on that line: (0.9 to 0.8), 1 was the stock number.
Remember that I said that the devs left it almost balanced? lol.
The changes needs to be very slight because if you do so much you will have a non balanced game in the end (poblems in fog or at night, etc)

Hopes that this could help and open new possibilities to all users of this mod.
I adjusted my game to 0.82 after some patrols. This is necessary because after i made the adjusts for airplanes this value becomes a bit to the "eagle eyes" side. Then a small adjust will be enough if you really want it!