Dems pass bill to hasten defeat

Yahoshua · 03-27-07, 06:22 PM

We're still fighting, the war hasn't been lost yet.

Enigma · 03-27-07, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Bush will veto it for sure, but if this bill becomes law we're going to lose the war for sure. Then the attacks will be on our homes themselves, and we'll know who to point the finger at when the time comes full.

Skybird · 03-27-07, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

We're still fighting, the war hasn't been lost yet.

That stubborness to resist any sense of realism gives a new meaning to the term "just killing time".

Yahoshua · 03-27-07, 07:03 PM

I'm a very pragmatic person.

What I see is a battle being fought against an enemy being supplied from outside Iraq (much like the Vietnam War and the Korean War). The battle isn't over, and it isn't about fighting an entity so much as it is an idealism that has become a scourge among people.

We will not declare victory when when "stability" occurs as we perceive it in the West since this will NEVER occur (look at Israel and the Arabs for example). We will win when the Iraqi gov't can stand on their own without our help, and the Iraqi people can vote democratically and decide their own future. That is victory.

Vietnam we lost because the politicians willed it to happen as it is happening now, seeing as how from a military standpoint we won EVERY engagement in the Vietnam war when we were involved. But we tied the hands of our commanders, limiting them to sentry duties in South Vietnam instead of destroying North Vietnams' infrastructure. We created our own demise. Once we abandoned South Vietnam, the south collapsed, and the United States is responsible for it.

When the U.S. leaves Iraq, all hell will break loose. If the Iraqi gov't collapses, we have lost the war. If we leave Iraq now, failure is guaranteed.

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 03-27-07, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

When the U.S. leaves Iraq, all hell will break loose. If the Iraqi gov't collapses, we have lost the war. If we leave Iraq now, failure is guaranteed.

Typical gambler's mentality. I might just win if I continue playing, so even if the odds look unfavorable, I'd still keep putting money on the table and lose it.

By your logic, the Soviet Union should have toughed it out in Afghanistan back in the 80s, because if they leave, failure (defined as propping up their favored government) is guaranteed and they MIGHT just succeed if they continue.

Yahoshua · 03-27-07, 07:54 PM

It's about hearts and minds now. Not a body count of the enemy.

And we ARE winning the war.

Not every news report from the mainstream media is reliable.

When was the last time you heard anything abous schools being built in Iraq? Or about how happy Iraqis were to vote with just Iraqi citizens making the decision to govern their nation? When was the last time you remember the Media saying anything GOOD about Iraq?

Just like in Vietnam, there is a camp of reporters that want to win the war, and another camp that wants the U.S. to lose the war.

Skybird · 03-27-07, 08:17 PM

Yes, it's always the guilt of others. F### those biased medias. Damn those peaceloving lefties. All opposing people are traitors, and they are even socialists. Impossible that the decision to go to war was a decison for guaranteed failure from the very beginning. How could that be - it is America waging the war, right?
You know what - even me does not care anymore for opinions like yours. You will try to still reject reality even when it comes in form of a 60 ton MBT rolling right over you and leaving you flat on the ground. History already is four years beyond where you are standing.

cobalt · 03-27-07, 08:34 PM

Our country deserved the Iraq problem, unfortunately.

fatty · 03-27-07, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

When the U.S. leaves Iraq, all hell will break loose. If the Iraqi gov't collapses, we have lost the war. If we leave Iraq now, failure is guaranteed.

Typical gambler's mentality. I might just win if I continue playing, so even if the odds look unfavorable, I'd still keep putting money on the table and lose it.

By your logic, the Soviet Union should have toughed it out in Afghanistan back in the 80s, because if they leave, failure (defined as propping up their favored government) is guaranteed and they MIGHT just succeed if they continue.

I had never thought of it from the gambler's win/loss perspective. Very interesting.

August · 03-28-07, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

By your logic, the Soviet Union should have toughed it out in Afghanistan back in the 80s, because if they leave, failure (defined as propping up their favored government) is guaranteed and they MIGHT just succeed if they continue.

And by your logic England should have thrown in the towel back in 1940 after the fall of France.

Yahoshua · 03-28-07, 08:59 PM

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...s_for_war.html

Ark · 03-28-07, 11:05 PM

At least Dean and a few others know what they are talking about.

03-27-07, 06:22 PM	#1
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	We're still fighting, the war hasn't been lost yet. __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

03-27-07, 07:03 PM	#4
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm a very pragmatic person. What I see is a battle being fought against an enemy being supplied from outside Iraq (much like the Vietnam War and the Korean War). The battle isn't over, and it isn't about fighting an entity so much as it is an idealism that has become a scourge among people. We will not declare victory when when "stability" occurs as we perceive it in the West since this will NEVER occur (look at Israel and the Arabs for example). We will win when the Iraqi gov't can stand on their own without our help, and the Iraqi people can vote democratically and decide their own future. That is victory. Vietnam we lost because the politicians willed it to happen as it is happening now, seeing as how from a military standpoint we won EVERY engagement in the Vietnam war when we were involved. But we tied the hands of our commanders, limiting them to sentry duties in South Vietnam instead of destroying North Vietnams' infrastructure. We created our own demise. Once we abandoned South Vietnam, the south collapsed, and the United States is responsible for it. When the U.S. leaves Iraq, all hell will break loose. If the Iraqi gov't collapses, we have lost the war. If we leave Iraq now, failure is guaranteed. __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

03-27-07, 07:54 PM	#6
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's about hearts and minds now. Not a body count of the enemy. And we ARE winning the war. Not every news report from the mainstream media is reliable. When was the last time you heard anything abous schools being built in Iraq? Or about how happy Iraqis were to vote with just Iraqi citizens making the decision to govern their nation? When was the last time you remember the Media saying anything GOOD about Iraq? Just like in Vietnam, there is a camp of reporters that want to win the war, and another camp that wants the U.S. to lose the war. __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

03-27-07, 08:17 PM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,693 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Yes, it's always the guilt of others. F### those biased medias. Damn those peaceloving lefties. All opposing people are traitors, and they are even socialists. Impossible that the decision to go to war was a decison for guaranteed failure from the very beginning. How could that be - it is America waging the war, right? You know what - even me does not care anymore for opinions like yours. You will try to still reject reality even when it comes in form of a 60 ton MBT rolling right over you and leaving you flat on the ground. History already is four years beyond where you are standing. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-27-07, 08:34 PM	#8
cobalt Commander Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 440 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Our country deserved the Iraq problem, unfortunately. __________________ download my playable viic/41 submarine http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107315 http://files.filefront.com/CobaltsVI.../fileinfo.html

03-28-07, 08:59 PM	#11
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...s_for_war.html __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

03-28-07, 11:05 PM	#12
Ark Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Fresno, CA. Posts: 581 Downloads: 95 Uploads: 0	At least Dean and a few others know what they are talking about. __________________ Ark -------------- Vista 64-bit SP1 Asus P6T Deluxe mobo Core i7 920 @ 3.8ghz 6GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 Evga GTX 285 SSC SB X-FI Fatality 640GB WD "Black" Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" LCD / Acer 23" H233H

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