What would you prefer, when a game is published ?

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by OddjobXL

Seems to me that from everything, everything, I'm reading SH IV is both playable and easy on the eyes right out of the box. Where there are issues, it seems to be, that we're talking about very technical stuff that only hardcore hundred-percenters, or people with monitors at least four times the size of their heads, would be worried about. There's no reason to think that won't be addressed in a patch, at least the worst of it...

Well the WORST of it is not having any AA at all..I really hope they do sort out this problem, but that would probably need a complete re-write of the DX code...I'm not going to be crossing my fingers. Whilst I agree there is really no need to play any game above 1600X1200 at this reso you get very little jaggedness anyways , we still have to cater for the fact that people still WANT to and in fact own TFT with Fixed Resolutions in widesreeen that go beyond the settings defaulted in the game....Come on they should have followed the ball with what they already had in SH3 at least we could force AA and with a little patching also up the Reso beyond the fixed 1024 X 768, Did they learn anything from these two glaring mistakes .....NO

Deep Six

[Immacolata]

OddjobXL, I think the problem is too many drama queens around. One or two is quite okay. But there's an army right now

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

OddjobXL, I think the problem is too many drama queens around. One or two is quite okay. But there's an army right now

This is expected upon release of any game.

I cant remember any game .... seriously any game that did not end up with patches.

First thing I do anymore after installing and playing even one second is check for updates.

The poll is kinda of ambiguous.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by enemyminds81

not buying the game only hurts the dev team, and gives ubi one more reason not to support them again. the lack of funds received possibly by all the cry babies who wont buy it now over trivial things, also depresses the dev's, if the projected numbers arnt going to at least be 45% of what they expected, the devs probably wont see any other reason to continue on with patching the game also

give it time

/end rant, im drunk and going to bed

Thats a load of bullplop. It isn'tup to the customer to buy the game in order to ensure that he gets a decent complete product after he forks out his cash. When I buy something I expect services delivered. Not future possibilities if my contribution to the gross revenues of a multinational might incline them to not pull the plug on my little niche game. Arguing that we need to buy the game to encourage Ubi to let it mature is just twisted.

It doesn't matter if it was the devs not doing their job (not my bet) or if it was the publisher rushing the release (definitely my bet), the point is that when I fork over my cash I want what I'm paying for. I don't want a bloody rain cheque. I don't pay top dollar to sit in the nose bleeds. As a full price game SH4 shouldn't be as flawed as its being described as. So I'll wait and play SH3 with GWX and SH3 Cmdr because its better and when SH4 is either cheaper or is patched to be less buggy then I might consider my top dollar. But I don't buy games very often. And I certainly don't want to buy an expensive piece of software and then have to let it ripen like some expensive bottle of wine before I can drink it.

There. End counter-rant.

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by joea

So...you're accusing Subsim of promoting buggy games or what?

Not at all. I am fighting against the sad fact that more and more PC games communities, including this one, seem to consider now natural, to not say normal, that a game come on the market in the state like SH4 was published.

Yes, it is impossible to garantee that a complex piece of software will come out 100% bug-free, especially in the PC world, where you found so much different hardware & software configuration. But attention !!! Their is bug and bug.

A crash to desktop, which occur only on some PC of some infortunate users, yes. This is typically the kind of bug which will be always very difficult to avoid and I can accept that. But any obvious bug, that everybody hit after having played 5 minutes, sorry, but to my view, this is simply inadmissible, like it is to publish a game obviously unfinished.

Maybe Subsim think that to be severe toward such kind of game will be contra-productive. That it will not help to change the situation. Better to accept and just play the role of "customer-beta-tester". This is not my opinion at all and I have already explained why in an other message.

ACS

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

What is the point of this contentious poll? To invite more whingeing?

Yes exactly, so then, you can comfort us and dry our tears

ACS

[John Channing]

AC:

I have discussed this with you in the forum and in PM's but I seem to be failing to get my message through to you.

No one at Subsim... not Neal or any of the Moderators, is preventing anyone from voicing their opinions, either pro or con.

They only thing we insist on is that you do it in a mature, respectful manner, and have respect for the other person's point of view.

There is no policy at Subsim that we take a stance either way on any issues.

If you have any questions please read the Subsim FAQ.

In fact, read it anyway. It is worth the time and effort.

Thanks

JCC

[tonyeh]

I understand both points of view. Products shipping with bugs especially a product as obviously buggy as SHIV is extremely annoying to the customer, both new and veteran. However, constant moaning about small issues solves nothing.

The main problem here is that SHIV was shipped with at least one MAJOR functionality bug, a show stopper and to me, that's just un-acceptable. Cosmetic bugs are aren't going to stop the game. But if a user presses an onscreen item essential to the game's functionality and the program stops or crashes EVERY TIME, then that is a non-starter IMHO.

The original poster is correct, if people keep buying software and not pointing out these faults, companies will simply keep shipping out unfinished work. I'm old enough to remember the days that when you bought a game it worked to an enjoyable degree out of the box. But the internet has made companies lazy when it comes to resolving QA issues. They can simply release what effectively is a beta and ship a patch later (usually with a promise of others to come. Which quite often don't).

I don't care what anyone says, but SHIV should NEVER have shipped without the major show-stoppers ironed out, even if it was just to save the credibility of the producer.

Tony

[Ducimus]

This isnt a poll to ask the consumer. Thats a no brainer.

This is a poll to present unto a publisher.

[bishop]

Originally Posted by ACSoft

Not at all. I am fighting against the sad fact that more and more PC games communities, including this one, seem to consider now natural, to not say normal, that a game come on the market in the state like SH4 was published.
ACS

Just curious, have you come to this conclusion by actually purchasing and playing the game yourself?

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by John Channing

AC:

I have discussed this with you in the forum and in PM's but I seem to be failing to get my message through to you.

No one at Subsim... not Neal or any of the Moderators, is preventing anyone from voicing their opinions, either pro or con.

They only thing we insist on is that you do it in a mature, respectful manner, and have respect for the other person's point of view.

There is no policy at Subsim that we take a stance either way on any issues.

If you have any questions please read the Subsim FAQ.

In fact, read it anyway. It is worth the time and effort.

Thanks

JCC

I don't see why my pool would mean "I am failing to get your message" ?!?

I re-read the FAQ, but didn't found any rules I would have broken.

Apparently you scold me again with this message, I would like to know why ? Speaking of my ironical "pathetic" adjective, I already answered to you in private, so now, if you consider I commit some new "crime", please be more precise.

ACS

[ACSoft]

Originally Posted by bishop

Just curious, have you come to this conclusion by actually purchasing and playing the game yourself?

I don't really understand what conclusion do you mean ?

That the game was shamefully buggy & unfinised or something else ?

ACS

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by ACSoft

I don't see why my pool would mean "I am failing to get your message" ?!?

I re-read the FAQ, but didn't found any rules I would have broken.

Apparently you scold me again with this message, I would like to know why ? Speaking of my ironical "pathetic" adjective, I already answered to you in private, so now, if you consider I commit some new "crime", please be more precise.

ACS

Here are two quotes by you in this very thread.

"To my view, the policy Subsim apply now, which is in fact like many other similar forums, just help publishers to apply more and more this disrespectful attitude."

"Maybe Subsim think that to be severe toward such kind of game will be contra-productive. That it will not help to change the situation. Better to accept and just play the role of "customer-beta-tester"

And here is a quote from me in this thread.

"There is no policy at Subsim that we take a stance either way on any issues."

In this and other threads you have in some cases implied and others flat out stated that Subsim.com has a policy about supporting substandard merchandise and trying to prevent open discussion. We have no such policy. If you have read the FAQ you should now be aware of that.

It is my personal belief, based on discussions with people at Ubisoft and several other developers over the years (people like Carl Norman, Gilman Louie, Smut Martin, Matt Wagner and many others) that if the community turns against a title too early then it will affect sales and future development.

My belief is based on conversations with the leading people in the industry... people who know what they are talking about.

Upon what are your beliefs based?

JCC

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

This isnt a poll to ask the consumer. Thats a no brainer.

This is a poll to present unto a publisher.

Even then the sheer redundancy of it doesn't really prove anything. They know it as much as we do.

[Hitman]

@ACSoft:

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

You seem to me a true admiror of Caton (The Old) :hmm: