What about SH4 improvements that really count?

THE_MASK · 03-02-07, 02:18 AM

After SH4 where is there to go in the series . Nowhere , so release the SDK and the subsim community can mod SH4 and SH3 and the game will last and sell for years .

The Noob · 03-02-07, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober

After SH4 where is there to go in the series

Modern times like dangerous waters? :hmm:

THE_MASK · 03-02-07, 03:02 AM

An add-on for SH4 to complete the world and include germany and britain would be nice . Getting back to the thread , i read on a review how the AI is now Quote " super intelligent". or something to that effect .

Capt.LoneRanger · 03-02-07, 03:31 AM

Well, to be honest it is not like the eyecandy is just a gimmik for this game. Considering the hardcoded limited visibility of 5km in SH3, I think this "eyecandy" shown in SH4 is more than just to please the eye.

Besides that, the screenies show different other things, that are not pure eyecandy: Very detailed damage-modell with different system and repair-queue with priorities, completely reworked crew management, functional systems modelled and readable from the interior view, even without actually jumping to the station, ability to participate in historical engagements and landing operations, reassigning of missions while at sea, ability to follow not mission-critical information to earn some extra points (e.g. for rescuing aircrews, even if not assigned to that task, when operating in a combat or airstrike-area), different mission-objectives, refuel and rearm at sea,....

I agree, that I'd very much like to see the US submarine groups of 4-5 move and engage together, to hunt down and engage the famous and most advanced Japanese submarines, like the I400-the famous submarine aircraft-carrier, etc... and also that I'm wondering if the crew really stands talking on the deck, while their ship is torn in two, etc.
But then, we also have little information on the positive side. In one of the previews it was stated they rescued a crew from a sunk ship and got the credits, even if it was no mission goal, for example.

There's just to little information, yet, to really have a reason to panic.

Aimbot · 03-02-07, 04:26 AM

Be careful what you wish for regarding the crew of ships. The biggest advantage this game has in terms of performance is that it focuses on a few large and relatively static objects. They move, but little on the ship actually does. You animate a dozen or so sailors on a ship in a complex way and the framerate won't drop noticably, but what happens when you run into a large convoy. Suddenly not only is your computer projecting a highly dynamic backdrop, the sea, and a series of eplosions and activity, but also a hundred or so individual sailers running around on the decks. And they all have to change behavior whn something happens. And they all have to have seperate actions and paths, so it doesn't look like a coreographed Broadway musical. And so on, and so on.

theluckyone17 · 03-02-07, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimbot

Be careful what you wish for regarding the crew of ships. The biggest advantage this game has in terms of performance is that it focuses on a few large and relatively static objects. They move, but little on the ship actually does. You animate a dozen or so sailors on a ship in a complex way and the framerate won't drop noticably, but what happens when you run into a large convoy. Suddenly not only is your computer projecting a highly dynamic backdrop, the sea, and a series of eplosions and activity, but also a hundred or so individual sailers running around on the decks. And they all have to change behavior whn something happens. And they all have to have seperate actions and paths, so it doesn't look like a coreographed Broadway musical. And so on, and so on.

There's a concept called "LOD" - Level Of Detail, I believe. The idea being, that the system only draws what's actually in visual range. I imagine it'd be kinda hard to see individual sailors at a distance. So SHIV only needs to "keep track" of sailors on ships that are within a certain range of the sub. Then, it only needs to draw the sailors that are within the viewing range, and not hidden by superstructure or the like. Ships that are sunk at a distant range can skip the crew running around and just go directly to creating the lifeboats.

Falcon 4.0 pulled something like this off... at a distant range, groups of tanks/aircraft/etc. were bunched together, and acted under a "group AI". Once the player reached a certain range, the bunch was unbunched, and each individual AI took over.

So it could be doable... question is, whether the dev's had enough time & desire to implement something on this scale.

Reece · 03-02-07, 04:28 AM

I'm sure that SH4 will have improved gameplay, such as sensors, the issues with uber dd's & dc's dropping with pinpoint accuracy (even in 1939), sonar, etc are problems that I would like fixed, another is when your TC drops back to 1x your sub has been bombed then the WO says "Aircraft", no kidding! down I go!!:rotfl:There have been so many complaints with this sort of thing that I'm sure the problems would have been addressed, especially since the engine is basically the same.

Cheers.

Buggins · 03-02-07, 04:51 AM

Aside from the fantastic new graphics the thing I am most interested in, and have been most excited by is the expanded dynamic campaign, which we have heard a reasonable amount about. The idea of getting non standard missions, and indeed getting any kind of instruction aside from 'Go to point A' 'Convoy at point B' along with enhanced radio chatter, nets/mines etc, dynamic harbours. All othese things seem like big improvements over the occasionally sterile SH3, the eye candy is just a pleasant extra!

03-02-07, 03:31 AM	#4
Capt.LoneRanger Bosun Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 65 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well, to be honest it is not like the eyecandy is just a gimmik for this game. Considering the hardcoded limited visibility of 5km in SH3, I think this "eyecandy" shown in SH4 is more than just to please the eye. Besides that, the screenies show different other things, that are not pure eyecandy: Very detailed damage-modell with different system and repair-queue with priorities, completely reworked crew management, functional systems modelled and readable from the interior view, even without actually jumping to the station, ability to participate in historical engagements and landing operations, reassigning of missions while at sea, ability to follow not mission-critical information to earn some extra points (e.g. for rescuing aircrews, even if not assigned to that task, when operating in a combat or airstrike-area), different mission-objectives, refuel and rearm at sea,.... I agree, that I'd very much like to see the US submarine groups of 4-5 move and engage together, to hunt down and engage the famous and most advanced Japanese submarines, like the I400-the famous submarine aircraft-carrier, etc... and also that I'm wondering if the crew really stands talking on the deck, while their ship is torn in two, etc. But then, we also have little information on the positive side. In one of the previews it was stated they rescued a crew from a sunk ship and got the credits, even if it was no mission goal, for example. There's just to little information, yet, to really have a reason to panic. __________________ Greets, Capt.LoneRanger

03-02-07, 04:28 AM	#7
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,718 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	I'm sure that SH4 will have improved gameplay, such as sensors, the issues with uber dd's & dc's dropping with pinpoint accuracy (even in 1939), sonar, etc are problems that I would like fixed, another is when your TC drops back to 1x your sub has been bombed then the WO says "Aircraft", no kidding! down I go!!:rotfl:There have been so many complaints with this sort of thing that I'm sure the problems would have been addressed, especially since the engine is basically the same. Cheers. __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

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03-02-07, 02:18 AM	#1
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	After SH4 where is there to go in the series . Nowhere , so release the SDK and the subsim community can mod SH4 and SH3 and the game will last and sell for years .

03-02-07, 03:02 AM	#3
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	An add-on for SH4 to complete the world and include germany and britain would be nice . Getting back to the thread , i read on a review how the AI is now Quote " super intelligent". or something to that effect .

03-02-07, 04:26 AM	#5
Aimbot Medic Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 160 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Be careful what you wish for regarding the crew of ships. The biggest advantage this game has in terms of performance is that it focuses on a few large and relatively static objects. They move, but little on the ship actually does. You animate a dozen or so sailors on a ship in a complex way and the framerate won't drop noticably, but what happens when you run into a large convoy. Suddenly not only is your computer projecting a highly dynamic backdrop, the sea, and a series of eplosions and activity, but also a hundred or so individual sailers running around on the decks. And they all have to change behavior whn something happens. And they all have to have seperate actions and paths, so it doesn't look like a coreographed Broadway musical. And so on, and so on.

03-02-07, 04:51 AM	#8
Buggins Watch Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 28 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Aside from the fantastic new graphics the thing I am most interested in, and have been most excited by is the expanded dynamic campaign, which we have heard a reasonable amount about. The idea of getting non standard missions, and indeed getting any kind of instruction aside from 'Go to point A' 'Convoy at point B' along with enhanced radio chatter, nets/mines etc, dynamic harbours. All othese things seem like big improvements over the occasionally sterile SH3, the eye candy is just a pleasant extra!