did they know?

[jasonsagert]

Also Captain Nemo, Donitz was found guilty of war crimes at Nuremburg--just not for the U-Boat war. His defence attorney actually called a US naval officer to testify that the US prosecuted the submarine warefare in the pacific exactly as the germans had.

BUT, Donitz was convicted of other war crimes (someones head had to role for what happened--so the mind set was and usually is), however, he killed himself the day before he was to be hung.

J

edit: my poor grammar--probably didn't catch it all

[melnibonian]

Doenitz didn't kill himself and was not convicted for the same war crimes as the Nazi Leaders. He got 10 years and died in Germany in 1981

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_D%C3%B6nitz

[jasonsagert]

melnibonian, you're absolutley correct.

Ah jeez, when will I learn to get away from my keyboard when i'm drunk--I was thinking of Georing

Ahahahah...I love laughing at myself. And now let's all join in:rotfl:

Cheers,

J

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by jasonsagert

melnibonian, you're absolutley correct.

Ah jeez, when will I learn to get away from my keyboard when i'm drunk--I was thinking of Georing

Ahahahah...I love laughing at myself. And now let's all join in:rotfl:

Cheers,

J

No worries mate we all have days (and some of us nights as well) like these :p :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Woof1701]

Your grammar is excused, but your half knowledge isn't. Dönitz didn't commit suicide and he wasn't sentenced to death but ten years prison for the "Laconia directive" which prohibted uboats to help survivors. This directive was only introduced because American planes had attacked and almost sunk German uboats helping survivors under a flag of truce flying the Red Cross banner and sending out uncoded radio messages. In my opinion Dönitz did the right thing there. If you take the accounts of the fast troop ships which weren't allowed to stop for survivors either. Queen Mary even rammed and sank an American escort ship and wasn't allowed to stop helping the survivors.

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by Woof1701

Your grammar is excused, but your half knowledge isn't. Dönitz didn't commit suicide and he wasn't sentenced to death but ten years prison for the "Laconia directive" which prohibted uboats to help survivors. This directive was only introduced because American planes had attacked and almost sunk German uboats helping survivors under a flag of truce flying the Red Cross banner and sending out uncoded radio messages. In my opinion Dönitz did the right thing there. If you take the accounts of the fast troop ships which weren't allowed to stop for survivors either. Queen Mary even rammed and sank an American escort ship and wasn't allowed to stop helping the survivors.

So he should write 100 times then the following phrase

'I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat History again':p :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Woof1701]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Good idea.
Why do I now have the picture of a guy on a ladder in my mind who's writing "Romani ite domum" on a city wall?

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by Woof1701

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Good idea.
Why do I now have the picture of a guy on a ladder in my mind who's writing "Romani ite domum" on a city wall?

People call Romanus go the house? :p :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Classic

[melnibonian]

@jasonsagert

Since we're in a 'funny' mood, if you don't like the above stated message you can write 100 times instead the following one

'I will NEVER ask Bernard for Historical References' :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

your choice mate

EDIT: Since you've already wrote the punishment you're OK. Now get on that brand new IXC and go and sink someone

[jasonsagert]

What? Bernard isn't a reliable historical reference?

I have a book in front of my right now entitled, "The Kriegsmarine During the Second World War", authored by Bernard. You mean this isn't a realiable source?

On page 210, Bernard states that he actually sank more U-Boats than the allies. He states that he did this because he felt "bad" for the Tommies. How can this not be true? It's in print for christ sake!!

[Redbear]

Yes, they did know. As mentioned earlier, the book 'Iron Coffins' shows this clearly. I also read Donitz's book 'Ten Years and Ten Days', and it's interesting to note that they kept going out because they were trying to save as many civilians and ground troops as possible. According to the Admiral, the allies refused to enter into a seperate peace with the west, and the Germans knew the Russians would kill many soldiers and civilians as the moved west. The Germans had folks streaming from east to the western zones, and by keeping the pressure on with U-Boats, they felt thet could divert allied resources from the front, therefore allowing more time to keep the escape lanes open.

[jasonsagert]

Woof1701: ah come on, I realized my mistake (if you read the posts a bit further). And now it's there for all of us to laugh at

BUT, that said, I've just started writing.

I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian........

100 times.

:rotfl:

[Woof1701]

Originally Posted by jasonsagert

Woof1701: ah come on, I realized my mistake (if you read the posts a bit further). And now it's there for all of us to laugh at

BUT, that said, I've just started writing.

I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian........

100 times.

:rotfl:

I was still writing the post while you realised it I let it stand anyway. BTW I'm sure you're cheating and wrote it only once and copied the other three in there.

[jasonsagert]

Woof1701: You, my friend, are correct. Guilty as charged. I loves me the copy/paste feature of these new fangled typing machines. But don't think it's trivial to do it 100 times. That's enough of a punishment within itself.

and for a sense of closure on this, here are the final four copy and pastes af the 100 I've done (which I copied and pasted to this thread)...wow, I'll never make that mistake again.

I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian.
I will not make a mistake about my Commander in Chief and I will read the U-Boat history agian

:rotfl:

[Captain Nemo]

Originally Posted by Woof1701

Your grammar is excused, but your half knowledge isn't. Dönitz didn't commit suicide and he wasn't sentenced to death but ten years prison for the "Laconia directive" which prohibted uboats to help survivors.

Donitz was charged with being involved with waging aggressive war, conspiracy to wage aggressive war, and crimes against the laws of war. Specifically, he was charged with waging unrestricted submarine warfare and as you rightly point out Woof1701, with issuing an order after the Laconia incident not to rescue survivors from ships attacked by submarine.

As I mentioned earlier, as one of the witnesses in his defense, Donitz produced an affidavit from Admiral Chester Nimitz who testified that the US had used unrestricted warfare as a tactic in the Pacific and that American submarines did not rescue survivors in situations where their own safety was in question. Despite this he was found guilty of "crimes against peace", for which he was sentenced to, and served, 10 years in prison. Of all the defendants at Nuremberg, the verdict against Donitz was probably the most controversial. The Soviet judge actually voted for his acquittal on all charges, and Donitz always maintained that he did nothing that his Allied counterparts weren't doing.

The point I was making earlier, was that Donitz knew by 1944 that the u-boat had lost the Battle of the Atlantic and Allied ASW was sinking u-boats at an alarming rate. Despite this, Donitz continued sending u-boats and their crews out to sea to fight a battle that had already been lost, which resulted in thousands of u-boat men needlessly losing their lives. It is this that should be taken into consideration, when assessing the integrity of Donitz himself.

Nemo