Ignore a specific fourm?

Takeda Shingen · 02-13-07, 03:04 PM

Personally, I do not believe that sub-forums ever solve any problem. A political sub-forum will not alleviate the frequency and ferocity of any arguement. Rather, it only moves it from one place to another. I would have to moderate it whether it was either location, so the work load is not lessened. Ultimately, yes, it must fall on the individual user whether to read it or not. I know, Ducimus, that you do not like that particular answer, but it is, unfortunately, the only answer short of placing all of the offending political pundits on your ignore list.

I don't believe that anyone thinks that you are full of nonsense, nor do I feel that Neal has mocked you. I have known Mr. Stevens for a considerable length of time, and if he has been provocative or overtly hostile, this would be the first that I have heard of it. Rather, I believe that you are very passionate about your stance, and I appreciate it, as I know he does as well. Unfortunately, there is simply nothing that he can do.

CCIP · 02-13-07, 05:02 PM

I'm all for a sub-forum, and I would actually name it "Current Issues" to avoid the polarizing language. It would not alleviate the problems, sure, nor make the debates less bitter (realistically speaking) - but I think it would adress Konovalov's concern about scaring away new members from GT as a whole.

Oh, and just so people know where I'm coming from... I'm a graduate student whose major focus area is critical discourse analysis (and who will probably be writing a thesis soon on some form of highly politicized discourse). Naturally I am both fascinated by some of these debates, and also sometimes rather irked by the weasely language used (by both sides of the spectrum by the way). Likewise, I think it's safe to say that I'm in a definite minority politically, being a self-proclaimed socialist (in a fairly strong sense of the word).

I like Neal's view of it as a clubhouse though. I think this is important to have, as long as it's fairly moderated and kept from becoming a bashing ground. Look at it the other way - I mean, I know what the other way is. I have been in a community which had a general forum and then closed it, and watched some (almost all) of the most interesting people in the community move away and leave altogether. Sure it got rid of the troublemakers, but with the troublemakers went some valuable members (some of them, ironically, troublemakers by default) and a general sense of community.

I keep wanting to make a nice, fuzzy thread about the things we probably share in common here, but I guess I haven't gotten around to it yet. Because I find that some of the people I strongly disagree with are also very productive community members and overall good folks who do good things. I certainly don't want to come off as an 'enemy' to them, even despite the ideological differences we might have.

Where I see the problem is in ideological attacks. We've established that personal attacks on the forum are off-limits, but the problem is that there are constant (and perhaps inevitable) ideological attacks taking place that get people going no less than a personal attack would, perhaps more because they're so seemingly subversive and indirect. I don't think there is really a solution to that, except asking everyone to behave in a civil manner about it.

But let's not be naive. This is a forum, a place to discuss, not a place for ideological transformation. Let's try not to take these debates too too seriously. Use the "two goats on two mountains" analogy or "bark bark - woof woof" analogy, the fact is that you're dealing with things that probably go deeper than a forum discussion can change. It's no secret that ideologies construe people's thinking and define the arguments which are acceptable to them. Ultimately, we can have our rhetorical clash here and there, but I really don't see the point in taking it too far: if you wish to engage in ideological struggle, I think there are far more relevant places to do it than Subsim's General Topics. At the very least, if you insist - keep a measure of respect. Again, this goes for everyone collectively.

Ducimus · 02-13-07, 06:05 PM

That was a good post.

Honestly guys, ive burned my candle on both ends on this. Im' all burnt out on it. done. If i ever feel things get to an excessive level here, ill just leave. Cause it's just not worth my time.

Can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen someone here said. That, generally was my idea and motivation. But its hard to not stick your head in the kitchen to see what's cooking when you can smell it coming out the door when walking by it. People keep missing that point.

Personnally, im tired of current events. I read about it every day, i see it in the news, and on TV, and i'ts not why i come to subsim. I acutally come here to get away from that stuff. Foolish of me i know.

02-13-07, 05:02 PM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I'm all for a sub-forum, and I would actually name it "Current Issues" to avoid the polarizing language. It would not alleviate the problems, sure, nor make the debates less bitter (realistically speaking) - but I think it would adress Konovalov's concern about scaring away new members from GT as a whole. Oh, and just so people know where I'm coming from... I'm a graduate student whose major focus area is critical discourse analysis (and who will probably be writing a thesis soon on some form of highly politicized discourse). Naturally I am both fascinated by some of these debates, and also sometimes rather irked by the weasely language used (by both sides of the spectrum by the way). Likewise, I think it's safe to say that I'm in a definite minority politically, being a self-proclaimed socialist (in a fairly strong sense of the word). I like Neal's view of it as a clubhouse though. I think this is important to have, as long as it's fairly moderated and kept from becoming a bashing ground. Look at it the other way - I mean, I know what the other way is. I have been in a community which had a general forum and then closed it, and watched some (almost all) of the most interesting people in the community move away and leave altogether. Sure it got rid of the troublemakers, but with the troublemakers went some valuable members (some of them, ironically, troublemakers by default) and a general sense of community. I keep wanting to make a nice, fuzzy thread about the things we probably share in common here, but I guess I haven't gotten around to it yet. Because I find that some of the people I strongly disagree with are also very productive community members and overall good folks who do good things. I certainly don't want to come off as an 'enemy' to them, even despite the ideological differences we might have. Where I see the problem is in ideological attacks. We've established that personal attacks on the forum are off-limits, but the problem is that there are constant (and perhaps inevitable) ideological attacks taking place that get people going no less than a personal attack would, perhaps more because they're so seemingly subversive and indirect. I don't think there is really a solution to that, except asking everyone to behave in a civil manner about it. But let's not be naive. This is a forum, a place to discuss, not a place for ideological transformation. Let's try not to take these debates too too seriously. Use the "two goats on two mountains" analogy or "bark bark - woof woof" analogy, the fact is that you're dealing with things that probably go deeper than a forum discussion can change. It's no secret that ideologies construe people's thinking and define the arguments which are acceptable to them. Ultimately, we can have our rhetorical clash here and there, but I really don't see the point in taking it too far: if you wish to engage in ideological struggle, I think there are far more relevant places to do it than Subsim's General Topics. At the very least, if you insist - keep a measure of respect. Again, this goes for everyone collectively. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

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02-13-07, 03:04 PM	#1
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Personally, I do not believe that sub-forums ever solve any problem. A political sub-forum will not alleviate the frequency and ferocity of any arguement. Rather, it only moves it from one place to another. I would have to moderate it whether it was either location, so the work load is not lessened. Ultimately, yes, it must fall on the individual user whether to read it or not. I know, Ducimus, that you do not like that particular answer, but it is, unfortunately, the only answer short of placing all of the offending political pundits on your ignore list. I don't believe that anyone thinks that you are full of nonsense, nor do I feel that Neal has mocked you. I have known Mr. Stevens for a considerable length of time, and if he has been provocative or overtly hostile, this would be the first that I have heard of it. Rather, I believe that you are very passionate about your stance, and I appreciate it, as I know he does as well. Unfortunately, there is simply nothing that he can do.

02-13-07, 06:05 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	That was a good post. Honestly guys, ive burned my candle on both ends on this. Im' all burnt out on it. done. If i ever feel things get to an excessive level here, ill just leave. Cause it's just not worth my time. Can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen someone here said. That, generally was my idea and motivation. But its hard to not stick your head in the kitchen to see what's cooking when you can smell it coming out the door when walking by it. People keep missing that point. Personnally, im tired of current events. I read about it every day, i see it in the news, and on TV, and i'ts not why i come to subsim. I acutally come here to get away from that stuff. Foolish of me i know.