The term "Japs"

[JSF]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

http://www.iceboxman.com/carlin/pael.php#track14

U da man to...or is it also.....can't decide these days of such uncertainty......

btw....Not to offend anyone here but Ducimus (aka Da Man) has provided us with a link which could possibly be the end-all, be-all to life's questions.....I thank you Sir.

[irish1958]

Racism=War
I order to get 18+/- year old people to kill other 18+/- people, it is necessary to give them a reason to hate.
This then becomes much easier when some of your buddies get killed which reinforces the hate.

Personally, I never want to use a term another person finds offensive; unfortunately, I sometimes do.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by JSF

ridicules...vein...ridicules...thru...affending

Okay, since we're not worrying about what we say and how it affects others...

The words are

1) Ridiculous

2) Vain

3) Through

4) Offending

I also dislike so-called "political correctness", but on the other hand it doesn't take any effort at all to avoid pejorative and insulting terms. Using such terms in the name of "not being told what to do" is both childish and arrogant. I thoroughly dislike terrorists, but I don't make a habit of calling all Arabs "ragheads" or "towelheads".

When I was involved with killing them I did tend to refer to Vietnamese as "gooks", "slants" and "slopes". I don't anymore, even in fun. If you want to call the enemy "Japs" or "Nips" in your patrol reports and stories, that makes perfect sense, as it fits the context of the times. On the other hand, using those terms in your everyday posts is offensive, and you should try to avoid them where possible.

[Safe-Keeper]

My two cents: I've noticed that 90% of the times the term "political correctness" is used, it's used by rude and/or insensitive people who say something they shouldn't. Then when they're confronted they go "OMG PC is b'c0min 2 exagerated!111". It's used as a "get-out-of-jail-free card" to avoid having to take responsibility for your statements.

In the old days you apologized when you offended someone. Today you cry bigot at the top of your voice. How far we've gotten.

When I was involved with killing them I did tend to refer to Vietnamese as "gooks", "slants" and "slopes". I don't anymore, even in fun. If you want to call the enemy "Japs" or "Nips" in your patrol reports and stories, that makes perfect sense, as it fits the context of the times. On the other hand, using those terms in your everyday posts is offensive, and you should try to avoid them where possible.

What you said.

http://www.iceboxman.com/carlin/pael.php#track14

Childish rambling. "OMG if you get offended b'cuz I used an offensive word ure intolerant!!111 its just wordz!!11". Right. There are such things as feelings in the world, feelings which warrant respect.

Then you make a joke about 9/11 (not that I do) or some other subject they care about and all of a sudden it's not "just a..." anything anymore. You see, people died on 9/11, so there are grieving people left behind.

Gotta love those kind of people.

[codmander]

better than **** when at war the par is to degrate the enemy ***** so on so forth

I hate to edit a post in a discussion about political correctness, but ok, we are discussing these terms but we don't need a laundry list of derogatory racial slurs, please. -- NS

[Onkel Neal]

I do not like political correctness much either, and I'm no expert on ethnic and racial slurs, but we do have to make sure we treat this subject with tact. This reminds me when Bart Simpson attended church and on the way home announced to his parents that the words hell, damn, and ass are in the Bible so he was going to start using them. "Damn, let's get our ass to the hell restuarant".

I am actually a fan of the post WWII Japanese people. I appreciate the gains they've made and how they have been a supportive US ally. So no one could realistically call me anti-Japanese. I don't know if "Jap" is a slur that Japanese find offensive or not. I use it as short for Japanese, but if I found using it was causing friction, I would not use it.

[fire-fox]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I do not like political correctness much either, and I'm no expert on ethnic and racial slurs, but we do have to make sure we treat this subject with tact. This reminds me when Bart Simpson attended church and on the way home announced to his parents that the words hell, damn, and ass are in the Bible so he was going to start using them. "Damn, let's get our ass to the hell restuarant".

I am actually a fan of the post WWII Japanese people. I appreciate the gains they've made and how they have been a supportive US ally. So no one could realistically call me anti-Japanese. I don't know if "Jap" is a slur that Japanese find offensive or not. I use it as short for Japanese, but if I found using it was causing friction, I would not use it.

thats where i stand too. but if you dont no if the Japanese find it offensive then i gess its best to use the full name, but then againe if it's not used in an offensive mannor it juat as diskiptive a term and "the UK" is instead of the United Kingdom!

[DaMaGe007]

I have no problem callin an Arab Towelhead or ragboy, as long as its face to face and I can smile afterwards. If said Arab is holding an AK47 I would say "gee thats a nice gun !" /runs away

Self preservation is a strong instinct.

[Ducimus]

I think part of the problem here is that people resent other's telling them how to talk - within reason.

I mean first of all, i think everyone would probably universally agree, context or no context, that the word "November Indigo Golf Golf Echo Romeo" is a word that nobody should use. It's just a word that ignites a flashpan with alot of ummm.. history behind it.

To agree to refrain from using a word like that is reasonable. Besides, nobody wants to be confiused with a racist biggot that would use that word.

But i think there's a line that people don't like being pushed over. For instance this is a WW2 submarine sim. If you've ready any books from the time period. I dunno, "run silent run deep", or many of Edward Beach's books on the subject, you'll find the word "jap" mentioned alot. Given the subject and it's context, its common language. Telling a person they can't use that word, within proper context, - now your just telling people how to talk and it's at a level where it might be considered unresonable to a minor degree of being repressed - or at the least it feels that way.

I personally resent people telling me how to talk if its beyond what's reasonable. I also think this is something built into the American psychi to a certain degree. "It's a free country, freedom of speech!, I'll say what i damn well want!" is the immediate kneejerk response. However, i don't think anyone would use that argument in an airport with bomb jokes. So there's obviously a line.

I'd also resent someone telling me i can't use "jap" as shorthand in the context of SH4 because of this stuipd **** called "aZy3n PrYd3" or whatever they like to call it. I see that ****, i'll go out of my way to use Jap, and every other slang that exists in the WW2 dictionary, just to piss them off, but ill stop there cause that touchs on a subject that belongs on the general forum. Im obviously getting worked up now. eesssh (long story short i hate people who hyphenate themselves, its pretentious BS)

[geetrue]

I grew up hating the Japanese in cartoons, comic books, barber shops, you name it everyone hated them. The war had been over for several years of course, but my elders were not to happy with the Japanese.

Years later I found out I loved the same things they did model planes, real planes, ships, art work, history, electronics, cars (didn't they copy just about every good car ever made). So even with my up bringing it was easy to forgive them.

You can forgive people without loving them, but it is almost impossible to love people without forgiving them too.

But on the other hand it is a war sim it is a game and it is just plain psychological to refer to the enemy as Japs ... this poster was paid for by the US government and speaks for itself. Wait for it to download.




Oh, any Japanese out there ... bring it on big boy we got Japanese AI on MP

[U-Dog]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I also dislike so-called "political correctness", but on the other hand it doesn't take any effort at all to avoid pejorative and insulting terms. Using such terms in the name of "not being told what to do" is both childish and arrogant. I thoroughly dislike terrorists, but I don't make a habit of calling all Arabs "ragheads" or "towelheads".

When I was involved with killing them I did tend to refer to Vietnamese as "gooks", "slants" and "slopes". I don't anymore, even in fun. If you want to call the enemy "Japs" or "Nips" in your patrol reports and stories, that makes perfect sense, as it fits the context of the times. On the other hand, using those terms in your everyday posts is offensive, and you should try to avoid them where possible.

I agree. I also think in a historic patrol report or story using the language of the time is acceptable as it is coming out of the mouth of a character, not the author.

Neal, I understand using Jap as an abreviation, but then a period at the end isn't hard to add and makes clear your intent. ex "I was off the Jap. coast near Shikoku."

To be clear this is the most mature game forum I've found and I always give people here the benefit of the doubt. We just have to remember that jokes and statements are more easily misunderstood in postings than in real life where context, tone of voice , body language and intent are more easily understood. -Severaol of you already pointed this out, just wanted to add my support to your statements.

[DaMaGe007]

****** - is concidered the derogatry term.

Nigga- is concidered the friendly use of the derogatry term, they both sound the same but the English Language is constantly evolving and new meanings are developed. So it really doesnt matter how you spell it even.

For instance

Gay- means happy (not homosexual related)
Gay- means Homosexual, has both derogatry and friendly connultations depending on delivery.
Gay-means Crap, no good...Derived from homophobia in the early days, but nowdays is used as a general term (not homo related) since homosexuals are widely accepted nowdays.

Rap music and movies have helped to make the Nigga word usable in a friendly sence, and I think its a good thing to help bridge the race gap and help to forget the past.

If you use it or not is personal choice and also depends on the situation your in.
(hence my arab joke earlier)

[U-Dog]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I think part of the problem here is that people resent other's telling them how to talk - within reason.

I mean first of all, i think everyone would probably universally agree, context or no context, that the word "November Indigo Golf Golf Echo Romeo" is a word that nobody should use. It's just a word that ignites a flashpan with alot of ummm.. history behind it.

To agree to refrain from using a word like that is reasonable. Besides, nobody wants to be confiused with a racist biggot that would use that word.

But i think there's a line that people don't like being pushed over. For instance this is a WW2 submarine sim. If you've ready any books from the time period. I dunno, "run silent run deep", or many of Edward Beach's books on the subject, you'll find the word "jap" mentioned alot. Given the subject and it's context, its common language. Telling a person they can't use that word, within proper context, - now your just telling people how to talk and it's at a level where it might be considered unresonable to a minor degree of being repressed - or at the least it feels that way.

I personally resent people telling me how to talk if its beyond what's reasonable. I also think this is something built into the American psychi to a certain degree. "It's a free country, freedom of speech!, I'll say what i damn well want!" is the immediate kneejerk response. However, i don't think anyone would use that argument in an airport with bomb jokes. So there's obviously a line.

I'd also resent someone telling me i can't use "jap" as shorthand in the context of SH4 because of this stuipd **** called "aZy3n PrYd3" or whatever they like to call it. I see that ****, i'll go out of my way to use Jap, and every other slang that exists in the WW2 dictionary, just to piss them off, but ill stop there cause that touchs on a subject that belongs on the general forum. Im obviously getting worked up now. eesssh (long story short i hate people who hyphenate themselves, its pretentious BS)

i think there is a bit of misunderstanding here. i for one am not telling anyone what words to use or not use. I'm trying to explain my feelings and the feelings of some others as well about the word Jap. I hope others will give the issue some thought and consider when and when not to use the word or the abreviation. It is still your decision. Its clear that you are not a racist from what you've written. Now that I know that about you I can view your posts in that light. The problem with forums is when we don't know the person posting well enough and we misinterpret what they mean. so I advocate caution to avoid misunderstandings.

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

long story short i hate people who hyphenate themselves, its pretentious BS

Not a fan of hyphenated terms myself, though this is the result of many of todays open, multicultural and immigrant-based societies. Others argue there's nothing wrong with it as it simply shows multinationality.

[DaMaGe007]

Hating people for hyphenating themselves is still predudice of a different kind which is really no better that racism, also accusing them of being pretencious and full of BS is insulting them aswell.

Better wording would have been "I hate it WHEN people Hyphenate themselves, I find it annoying"

Its probably just the way you have worded your post due to your getting worked up.