Friendly fire video. A10/British unit.

[TteFAboB]

Apparently this is a classic case of Jean-Francois Revel's "Blame America First" phenomenon.

Look how interesting is the difference of the media's attitude from the past and present. Blowing with the wind?

Brits, before throwing accusation overseas how about keeping your MoD in check? Look what I found from wikipedia, you can't say you haven't been warned. You knew of the risks:

Lt-Col Larpent argues that defence chiefs should make the fitting of an effective Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system to front-line army vehicles "a pre-condition of the commitment of British troops to close combat operations involving the US air force".

The ministry's failure to introduce a technical protection system that would guard against a repetition of friendly fire incidents was "difficult to excuse", he says.

"There has been plenty of time over the past 12 years for a solution to this problem to be found. The MoD answer that 'we are working on it' is unacceptable."

"That the same soldiers are now preparing to undertake operations in the same theatre with nothing more to protect them from their allies than the same fluorescent marker panels we carried on top of our vehicles smacks of serious negligence on the part of the MoD," Lt-Col Larpent says.

"Our chiefs of staff and politicians should consider very carefully the risk that they could be imposing on our troops and how they will answer to the nation if yet more British soldiers become casualties in similar circumstances."

I know how they will answer! Scapegoatism! The **** hits the fan? Blame America First and forget that YOU WERE WARNED! Knew of the risks and did nothing to remedy in over 12 years.

Despite highly critical reports in 1992 and 1994 by the committees, it was not until the 1998 strategic defence review that the ministry admitted it could not produce an effective system because the three services had different equipment procurement procedures.

Different procedures!!!

Although the procurement system has been reorganised and work is going on to incorporate combat identification into the tactics and procedures of the three services, there is still no firm date for its completion. The audit office warned the ministry last March that modern weapons had left "few safe sanctuaries within the battle space", making friendly fire incidents much more likely.

Last August the public affairs committee said that, a decade after its first report, the MoD had just approved a policy paper on combat identification. Implementing that policy could be years away.

From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...q06.xml&page=3

I cannot confirm the veracity of this information. Perhaps with a Google research I could find the committees, the reports and the public statements but that would take too much time.

You seem to have problems with friendly fire at home aswell:

The Ministry of Defence is failing to protect military personnel from friendly fire accidents, MPs said yesterday.

The Commons public accounts committee said it had not implemented a full "combat identification" capability more than 10 years after nine British soldiers died in a Gulf war air strike by the Americans.

The committee criticised the ministry for only recently producing a policy paper and said that there was a "dearth" of relevant data.


The MPs said the delays were impeding the effectiveness of weapons systems. The £2 billion Rapier air defence missile system operated at 25 per cent of capability to minimise the risk of friendly fire casualties.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...21/nfire21.xml

I cannot confirm the veracity of this information either. Could be true or it could be just the opposition's political game.

By no means do I intend to remove or lessen the pilot's guilt with this (or the FACs, or whoever set up the comm system, etc.). I've already said that they pressed the trigger so they're guilty. It's just that if any of this is true then the context changes a little bit. As the Brit report said, these things help "shape the enviroment" which allows for the blue-on-blue casualties to happen and in this regard Brits and Americans share responsibility on equal grounds as neither has yet devised a reliable IFF system.

Patriotism: the last refuge of the scoundrel. The cultural arguments I found on the newspapers are simply the most scapegoated, disgusting and lame excuses to a real problem that needs addressing and has nothing to do with culture, but with technology and equipment. Communication would've been better had the Coalition forces trained longer and had more time to properly integrate. Unsatisfactory training and rushed integration is not exactly the Pilot's fault, is it?

[badhat17]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

After my exposition of the media's spin-job I highly recommend that you don't accept these things at face-value. Unless you are willing to serve as an unintentional disinformation agent.

Had the newspaper report been the only source for my post on this matter then I would most likely not have posted it but there is a somewhat oblique reference to this contained within the BoI which you have partialy quoted.
The remainder can be found at the foot of page 25 in the report, I would paste it here but I have no idea how to copy from the pdf.
Do not worry about myself accepting these things at face value, one would have to be blind to miss the political agenda in the reporting.

Where can I read the American report.

The American report has never been made public.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by STEED

I have a complaint to make to our American friends, last night on the ITV News a American gentlemen was interviewed and he made the remark that we Brits were sucking our thumbs in WW2, well excuse me who went to war with Germany in Sept 39 and our city's fell under air attacks as we stood alone in 1940. I find that kind of remark offencive and a bloody insult, don't get me wrong I know not all Americans hold that view point and probably think that gentlemen was wrong to say that.

I see on the ITV news tonight the gentlemen in question who is a neighbour of one of the fighter pilots has apologised for his remarks.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

I think what happened is an awful accident, I feel sorry for the soldier who died and even worse for the two pilots who will have to live with the guilt of this for the rest of their lives.

I just wish that Blair had stood up to Bush, and maybe we wouldn't be in this mess now.

First of all I don't entirely blame the pilots, the whole thing is a series of c#ck ups and I think my first post does still give that impression. But I drive for a living and if I run someone down and kill them by accident , then it would be quite reasonable for the family of my victim to want to see me in court and see justice done. Even if the judge says there is no case to answer

What I don't like is the fact that the American millitary has sat on that tape (with the help of our MOD) for four years - Why?

I own "Lock on" and everything that you see in that video you can see on my screen when I play it. Surely the Russians have HUD's too?

There is something fishy going on.

Add to that Iraq has been an unmittigated disaster and we want our troops back(a great many of us didn't want them out there in the first place), and maybe you can see why this is leaving a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd like to finish this rant by saying that I don't hate Americans at all - just Bush, his policys and his party.