SH4 removes some functionality from SH3

[The WosMan]

I believe this is the radio room on a Gato Class. I took this when I was at the USS Cod in Cleveland back in August. If I remember correctly it was pretty far away from the command room, up toward the officers quarters near the front of the boat. Directly in front of the command room was the galley and kitchen. Maybe this is why it isn't modeled because you would have to walk though all that other stuff to get to it and of course they wouldnt want to do all that.

[Torpex752]

I like everything I read about SHIV, but let me assure anyone who wishes to simulate real submarining that real submariners WWII to present eat, breathe, and sleep damage control. Not giving a subsim a damage control screen is reverting SH4 to an SH2 style, in my experience taking a huge step backwards.

Commanding Officers ALWAYS make tatical decisions based on the condition of their boat's readiness, and when damaged you absolutely must know how long certain repairs will take. You also must be able to dictate what the priorities are for the damage control team are at critical moments! I would sure hate to need my tubes fixed first and the programmer decided that flooding must always be fixed first! Especially if I sit in 60 feet of water and have a dire need to shoot my tubes.

So my hope is that this will be remedied in the first patch. (PLEASE)


Frank

[The WosMan]

I just hope they include that awesome linoleum floor on the sub like you see in my picture.

Personally, the damage control screen doesn't bother me that much. Until I know more about how the crew reports damage will dictate my final view. I can tell you they didn't have realtime graphics of a sub with animated fires and flooding in real life back in WW2. I doubt a modern nuke sub would have this.

If you want realism then what you should get is an announcement over the PA of your crew screaming damage and then you tell your guys what to do and expect them to fix it. I would have liked to see more of the ship modeled though but that is a pretty tall task to do it for each type of submarine. US boats were pretty darn big. The Cod (Gato) is a huge upscale hotel inside compared to what the germans were stuck in. There was quite a bit of room to move around in and it suprised me because I thought it was going to be a bit more clustrophobic.

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by The WosMan

I just hope they include that awesome linoleum floor on the sub like you see in my picture.

Me too, that stuff is chic. Didn't realize vinyl linoleum was around during the '40s. That sure is a sexy green though.

[Shaffer4]

Its not Vinyl... its Linoleum...

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstart...a/linoleum.htm

[flintlock]

Its not Vinyl... its Linoleum

Linseed oil, pigments, pine rosin and pine flour--who'd guessed?

[hyperion2206]

Originally Posted by Torpex752

I like everything I read about SHIV, but let me assure anyone who wishes to simulate real submarining that real submariners WWII to present eat, breathe, and sleep damage control. Not giving a subsim a damage control screen is reverting SH4 to an SH2 style, in my experience taking a huge step backwards.

Commanding Officers ALWAYS make tatical decisions based on the condition of their boat's readiness, and when damaged you absolutely must know how long certain repairs will take. You also must be able to dictate what the priorities are for the damage control team are at critical moments! I would sure hate to need my tubes fixed first and the programmer decided that flooding must always be fixed first! Especially if I sit in 60 feet of water and have a dire need to shoot my tubes.

So my hope is that this will be remedied in the first patch. (PLEASE)


Frank

Did you play Aces of the Deep? I liked how the devs made the damage control screen: it was a blue print of your sub and the CE circled the damaged parts of the sub. You could click on them and get detail info, I want that back.

[Torpex752]

Originally Posted by hyperion2206

Did you play Aces of the Deep? I liked how the devs made the damage control screen: it was a blue print of your sub and the CE circled the damaged parts of the sub. You could click on them and get detail info, I want that back.

Yes I did, played nearly every subsim that was ever made electronically. (not braggin just answering the question) and I base my "experience" on having served in the submarine force for 20 years and having studied WWII subs for over 30 years. My comment is based on an unbiased comparison/study of the three areas together, subsim experience WWII history and personal experience in the sub community. Not Bragging, Its just been my passion since I was twelve...even joined the navy and choose subs to dive in as deep as I could. While there it was amazing to see how similar the roles of the crew in subs have remained. The technological advances and the remaining similarities. All in all SH3 has the best atmosphere, and I was so hopeful that SH4 would build straight "up" and continue to enhance and expand on all of what was already there. It sounds like SH4 has done most of that but has neglected one large area. Sure, we didnt have a 3d rendered grafics screen showing water and fire on our boats, the stuff was there!. However when you are not on a sub and cannot "feel" the heat, humidity, cold, high CO2, low O2 levels, experience the pounding headaches, smell the smells, choke on the smoke, having a visual representation of these items to "see" the mess and make decisions based off of that mess is and should be part of the experience. Modern submarine simulations continue to lack those visual (one of the senses yes?) elements and IMHO are only half done. Could they be better? Why not? If they can model crew management, why remove damage control management? Are they not truely interlaced? You cant have one without the other as far as I have ever seen. So while I am excited that SH4 looks and does the things it does have I am sad not to see the item that makes up almost 50% or a submariners life neglected (or so it seems).

Thanks for letting me reply.

Frank

[The WosMan]

Shaffer4Its not Vinyl... its Linoleum...

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstart...a/linoleum.htm

Hahaha, yeah and the best part was when it was first invented back in the 1800s it wasn't considered a cheap floor covering like that article says. You were the cats a$$ if you could put it in your house and only the rich people could afford it. Saw that on the History channel.

Never placed Aces but I like the way that sounds. A blueprint is what you should have and then as damage accumulates the graphic looks like somebody with a pencil in handwriting circles the area and writes what the damage is. As it is fixed the writing gets erased.

[elanaiba]

Due to the accelerated development cycle of this title, the damage control screen and radio stations are simplified from previous versions. The damage control center does not have a sub cutaway with little compartments, fires, and flooding animations. However, the player is given the ability to group several damage teams with experts and more efficiently prioritize the tasks.

Neal's article says simplified, not eliminated.

[Torpex752]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Neal's article says simplified, not eliminated.

True, "simplified" is the word, however damage control is not simple. I could deal with out the cutaway as long as they dont simplify what is damaged by giving the damage a % or worse yet, generalizing anything that could get damaged into a compartment group %. SH3 had it about as simple as it should ever be as it didnt really say what was wrong with something, IE: an engine, but gave a time to repair what was wrong. Simplifying the damage control teams to mirror the US navy's system of a Watch Quarter and station bill (still used today), would definitly feel simplified compared to SH3's method (or lack of).
So I get a tad bit nervous because I have seen what "simplified" damage control results in. Should it be simplified because the dev team figured that a Commanding Officer didnt need to be bothered with certain details, may want to reconsider that. The Officer Submarine qualification program of the 30's contained many of the same elements as todays in that the there was a pipeline of training and duties that every CO went through. Basically, one was to understand submarines, submarine construction, and engineering thoroughly and know many, many details. So in combat, when the CO hears that an inner torpedo tube gasket has failed, he understands the priority that needs over a leaking periscope packing, a few cracked battery cells, or blown trimp pump fuses.
Sorry if I seem overly anal I just think that while how things look does deserve attention, so does the mechanics of the submarine and her crew in order to continue giving a greater feel for the complexities of submarine warfare and how interlaced a crew becomes with their boat.

Frank

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Torpex752

I like everything I read about SHIV, but let me assure anyone who wishes to simulate real submarining that real submariners WWII to present eat, breathe, and sleep damage control. Not giving a subsim a damage control screen is reverting SH4 to an SH2 style, in my experience taking a huge step backwards.

Commanding Officers ALWAYS make tatical decisions based on the condition of their boat's readiness, and when damaged you absolutely must know how long certain repairs will take. You also must be able to dictate what the priorities are for the damage control team are at critical moments! I would sure hate to need my tubes fixed first and the programmer decided that flooding must always be fixed first! Especially if I sit in 60 feet of water and have a dire need to shoot my tubes.

So my hope is that this will be remedied in the first patch. (PLEASE)


Frank

DITTO