GWX's "uber" AI demystified

[joea]

Originally Posted by Kumando

Useful for cheating.

Going in the baffles in cheating right. Anyway I "think" listening for a sonar return is not the same as using the hydrophone to listen for the noises of the sub plus (this is from my DC days ) I think they used a scope to check the return and were not actually counting seconds for the ping. Will look into it at home.

[Gavilan]

Originally Posted by Kumando

Useful for cheating.

Cheating to you maybe, but each to their own... I personally can't see how this guide is a cheat or exploit.

Anyway since it's mainly a single player game surely if you do cheat the only person being cheated is yourself? :hmm:

[scalelokt]

I have one question. In the original post you said that if you are sitting still waiting for a convoy and get pinged you probably stayed in one place for X number of minutes inside the sonar cone of a DD right? I guess I'm just curious, if you are submerged and dead quiet, how are they knowing to ping you in the first place? Do they just ping ever other minute to see if something is there all the time? Guess thats one thing I never understood, if I'm at a dead stop and submerged and get pinged out of nowhere, how did they even know to ping, they didnt know I was there to begin with. Hope that makes sense.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by scalelokt

I have one question. In the original post you said that if you are sitting still waiting for a convoy and get pinged you probably stayed in one place for X number of minutes inside the sonar cone of a DD right? I guess I'm just curious, if you are submerged and dead quiet, how are they knowing to ping you in the first place? Do they just ping ever other minute to see if something is there all the time? Guess thats one thing I never understood, if I'm at a dead stop and submerged and get pinged out of nowhere, how did they even know to ping, they didnt know I was there to begin with. Hope that makes sense.

They always made sweeps with sonar. I do not believe the pinged all the time but if sonar makes a contact the a ping would be in order to help get a better location on the uboat.

[Iron Budokan]

Excellent post. Good work.

[Woof1701]

Hi Ducimus,

Really excellent post. Since I was never one to complain about the DDs sonar capabilities but about their visual abilities I have a favor to ask:

How does the visual system work. I constantly have problems shadowing convoys and attacking them on the surface at night. Even with really bad weather. And I even had my scope spotted several times when I was literally miles away.

Thanks a lot.

[fredbass]

I'm sure many players still aren't aware that lowering your speed at silent running to 2k will make a big difference and therefore probably haven't added the Dec. 23 fix either, for one reason or another. I've found that once that is accomplished, there is nothing exceptionally tough about avoiding damage, as long as I have some depth to work with and the war is still in a fairly early point in time.

And remember what Ducimus has showed you. It can be an advantage to run at a shallower depth to keep your acute angle towards a ship at a minimum, if possible.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by fredbass

I'm sure many players still aren't aware that lowering your speed at silent running to 2k will make a big difference and therefore probably haven't added the Dec. 23 fix either, for one reason or another. I've found that once that is accomplished, there is nothing exceptionally tough about avoiding damage, as long as I have some depth to work with and the war is still in a fairly early point in time.

And remember what Ducimus has showed you. It can be an advantage to run at a shallower depth to keep your acute angle towards a ship at a minimum, if possible.

Precisely....try to demonstrate a little patience ans self restraint. In real life it could take many hours or even a day+ for the game of 'cat and mouse' to come to an end.

[Kitzbuell]

Originally Posted by fredbass

I'm sure many players still aren't aware that lowering your speed at silent running to 2k will make a big difference and therefore probably haven't added the Dec. 23 fix either, for one reason or another. I've found that once that is accomplished, there is nothing exceptionally tough about avoiding damage, as long as I have some depth to work with and the war is still in a fairly early point in time.

And remember what Ducimus has showed you. It can be an advantage to run at a shallower depth to keep your acute angle towards a ship at a minimum, if possible.

Ducimus:

Great explanation of many facets/techniques I was aware of and one I had totally wrong {I could have sworn that when I first purchased SH3 years ago that I read somewhere that your sub's movements (both hydrophone and asdic) would be temporarily masked.}.

[To FredBass:

What exactly was the "Dec. 23 fix"?]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

There are several types of sonar, and they all differ in geometric statistcs. Each one becoming a bit more effective then the previous version. From all ive been able to tell, the AI will not ping you unless:

A.) You are in his active sonar cone.
b.) You are presenting him a favorable aspect
c.) You are doing both A, and B for X number of seconds.

Excellent post Ducimus! Although this is something I've gradually intuited over many months it's still an excellent reference for me, and I'm sure valuable to both old and new alike. Thanks and appreciation for the time you spent on this!

One thing I wanted to point out, though. There have been more than a few occassions where I've had tin cans start pinging, even though I'm several hundred to over a thousand meters directly behind them. I'm certainly not in their active sonar cone at that point.

I think what happens is that an escort won't, without any reason, just begin actively pinging unless your doing A, B and C (which is how I'm interpreting your post). However, once they've twigged onto a U-boat in the vicinity, or have lost passive contact with you for a number of minutes, they'll start actively pinging seeking to re-acquire contact again.

In that situation, simply hearing pings doesn't mean they are getting an echo from you. It is, though, a very good indication that they are serious about finding your butt.

Again, kudos and appreciation for your work!

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Albrecht Von Hesse

One thing I wanted to point out, though. There have been more than a few occassions where I've had tin cans start pinging, even though I'm several hundred to over a thousand meters directly behind them. I'm certainly not in their active sonar cone at that point.

I think what happens is that an escort won't, without any reason, just begin actively pinging unless your doing A, B and C (which is how I'm interpreting your post). However, once they've twigged onto a U-boat in the vicinity, or have lost passive contact with you for a number of minutes, they'll start actively pinging seeking to re-acquire contact again.

Thanks for reminding me about this. What is going on is their on an "alert" state having detected a uboat. And will be that way until the lost contact time has expired, which is 30 mins.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Thanks for reminding me about this. What is going on is their on an "alert" state having detected a uboat. And will be that way until the lost contact time has expired, which is 30 mins.

No prob. This is dayuhm impressive Ducimus!

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Albrecht Von Hesse

No prob. This is dayuhm impressive Ducimus!

Well its not like i figured it ALL out on my own. I did alot of research into detection, but as i recall it was Cmdr Gibs that explained the geometry of active sonar to me when things weren't quite clicking. Once it was explained to me, everything cemented in.

[Woof1701]

Hi Ducimus,
Seems you overlooked my last post. So I just repeat it here

Really excellent post. Since I was never one to complain about the DDs sonar capabilities but about their visual abilities I have a favor to ask:

How does the visual system work. I constantly have problems shadowing convoys and attacking them on the surface at night. Even with really bad weather. And I even had my scope spotted several times when I was literally miles away.

Thanks a lot.

[scalelokt]

Thanks for answering the question, makes total sense. An excellent post, thanks so much for taking the time to get this together for us.