Are submerged/periscope attacks too easy?

mookiemookie · 01-18-07, 12:57 PM

I was always under the impression that periscope attacks were difficult especially at night as the optics didn't allow for accurate targeteing. i.e. it was too dark to get accurate AOB, range and speed measurements.

There could be other reasons, but this is the one that I'm aware of.

melnibonian · 01-18-07, 01:22 PM

I think the reason for the surface attacks is that they offer greater visibility and higher speeds. Don't forget that WWII U-Boats were not like modern submarines. They could not stay under water for too long and they were built to approach the enemy on the surface and dive just prior to the attack.

Warmonger · 01-18-07, 01:51 PM

Just look at the various tonnage accounts on www.uboat.net and you can see that many subs never sank a ship even on numerous patrols. So if you'd make a game as hard as real life was almost noone would play it for long time.
It's always difficult to comparison real life and games, even with super sims like SH3.

01-18-07, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melnibonian

I think the reason for the surface attacks is that they offer greater visibility and higher speeds. Don't forget that WWII U-Boats were not like modern submarines. They could not stay under water for too long and they were built to approach the enemy on the surface and dive just prior to the attack.

I understand that. My question was posing if it is (or just appears to be) far easier to conduct successful submerged attacks in SHIII than they should be, historically compared.

AVGWarhawk · 01-18-07, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albrecht Von Hesse

Quote:

Originally Posted by melnibonian

I think the reason for the surface attacks is that they offer greater visibility and higher speeds. Don't forget that WWII U-Boats were not like modern submarines. They could not stay under water for too long and they were built to approach the enemy on the surface and dive just prior to the attack.

I understand that. My question was posing if it is (or just appears to be) far easier to conduct successful submerged attacks in SHIII than they should be, historically compared.

Compared historically I would say yes. But again, this is a sim played in the comfort of your home so there are plenty of things that will be missing from the sim as a result.

Sailor Steve · 01-18-07, 03:46 PM

As mookiemookie said, night attacks pretty much had to be done on the surface as periscopes don't allow enough light to be useful unless a full moon is out. Daylight attacks must be made submerged (or you're dead), which means risking staying surfaced long enough to do an end-around to get in front of the convoy and dive again.

01-18-07, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As mookiemookie said, night attacks pretty much had to be done on the surface as periscopes don't allow enough light to be useful unless a full moon is out. Daylight attacks must be made submerged (or you're dead), which means risking staying surfaced long enough to do an end-around to get in front of the convoy and dive again.

Ok. Then I wasn't imagining things. :p

I suppose the only alternative would be have the scopes modded to have their field of view darker and/or blurred during night-time conditions (less when you have a full moon, of course

) to simulate historical conditions.

johan_d · 01-18-07, 06:12 PM

Well all above can be true, but I for example am cautious, because I want to live thru the war to see the anticlimax end.

I sink about 2-4 ships per patrol, sometimes none. Maybe my realism.. altough on 50%.

I almost do the entire patrol from the bridge surfaced, and barely go down every hour to listen. Only do that when I suspect bait.. on a choke point for example.

Creeping in to about 4 miles, and when there are too much destroyers, or the prey is going to fast, I stop and evade. Do not wanna risk my life and that of the crew.

Just pretend you do NOT wanna die, and life thru the war, then the whole sim becomes that way, as described.
Maybe just my way of doing things, but often I go flank surfaced to the target, lauch torpedoes, dive to keep undetected, watch for hit, surface or shoot another one if missed, and away we go. Destroyers around, then slow and deep, otherwise, clearing datum asap.

Anyhow, you could easily make it as you describe herr Von Hesse, just lower the max battery speed, then you MUST do as advertised.
have fun!

01-18-07, 12:57 PM	#1
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I was always under the impression that periscope attacks were difficult especially at night as the optics didn't allow for accurate targeteing. i.e. it was too dark to get accurate AOB, range and speed measurements. There could be other reasons, but this is the one that I'm aware of. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

01-18-07, 01:22 PM	#2
melnibonian Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reading UK Posts: 3,473 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I think the reason for the surface attacks is that they offer greater visibility and higher speeds. Don't forget that WWII U-Boats were not like modern submarines. They could not stay under water for too long and they were built to approach the enemy on the surface and dive just prior to the attack. __________________ http://www.thegreywolves.com/ http://wolvesatwar.com/ Download GWX and other goodies: http://hosted.filefront.com/melnibonian

01-18-07, 03:46 PM	#6
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	As mookiemookie said, night attacks pretty much had to be done on the surface as periscopes don't allow enough light to be useful unless a full moon is out. Daylight attacks must be made submerged (or you're dead), which means risking staying surfaced long enough to do an end-around to get in front of the convoy and dive again. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

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01-18-07, 01:51 PM	#3
Warmonger Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 266 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Just look at the various tonnage accounts on www.uboat.net and you can see that many subs never sank a ship even on numerous patrols. So if you'd make a game as hard as real life was almost noone would play it for long time. It's always difficult to comparison real life and games, even with super sims like SH3.

01-18-07, 06:12 PM	#8
johan_d Samurai Navy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 556 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 1	Well all above can be true, but I for example am cautious, because I want to live thru the war to see the anticlimax end. I sink about 2-4 ships per patrol, sometimes none. Maybe my realism.. altough on 50%. I almost do the entire patrol from the bridge surfaced, and barely go down every hour to listen. Only do that when I suspect bait.. on a choke point for example. Creeping in to about 4 miles, and when there are too much destroyers, or the prey is going to fast, I stop and evade. Do not wanna risk my life and that of the crew. Just pretend you do NOT wanna die, and life thru the war, then the whole sim becomes that way, as described. Maybe just my way of doing things, but often I go flank surfaced to the target, lauch torpedoes, dive to keep undetected, watch for hit, surface or shoot another one if missed, and away we go. Destroyers around, then slow and deep, otherwise, clearing datum asap. Anyhow, you could easily make it as you describe herr Von Hesse, just lower the max battery speed, then you MUST do as advertised. have fun!